Jujubes- Our New Adventure


You dog is very cute and has an excellent taste in fruit. My sister’s dogs have eaten all kinds of fruit. That was the first time I learned that dogs eat fruit.

Well, not only I want to know where your Winter Delight fits in, I want to know which is correct Mango Dong Zho or Mango Dong Zao? Is it the same variety with different regional pronunciations?


Massandra is very good to me in Dallas if it’s been brown for 3 days; half brown ones are blah. This tree was supposed to be a Black Sea, I’ll try again.

Coco is a nice surprise, and the tree was loaded year 2. Distinctive coconut taste. Unique.

I’d give my Winter Delights a B+, same as my Shansi Li; hopefully it will improve in future years.


I wonder about the name too. I took it off the label sent on my tree


I’ve only had a single Massanda so far, which was good. I’ll need to eat one immediately before/after a Honey Jar to have a better comparison.

To me, HJ and SC are a toss up. The HJ may be a tad sweeter, but in the upper 20’s does 2-3 brix points even matter? From what I’ve seen very ripe HJ are about 30 and SC 27-28. I think the bigger difference for some is the texture. Both are crisp and juicy, but HJ has a denser crunch, while SC seems like a lighter crisp. It is the texture my wife pointed to when liking the SC better (with Black Sea 2nd and then HJ 3rd). I suppose the SC is also a bit bigger, if that matters to you. I’m Ok with the HJ size. Bigger is OK, but too much bigger makes it uncomfortable to just pop it in your mouth (I’m looking at you, Autumn Beauty…). Too much smaller (like Vegas Candy) could make less than a mouthful and is non-ideal.

OK- you got me. I’ve never heard of Halina. I though I had a complete collection…(Just kidding- it’s not possible to have everything, as someone will just breed another…). I did plant a Sandia this spring, but it hasn’t grown much so far.

Is that the same as Kitaiski 60?

It was getting dark out when I checked today, so I didn’t do a full inspection. But I did run my hand up and down the tree (a risky way to check…) and didn’t find a single thorn, other than a few which looked like thorns in the poor light, but were actually flexible and not sharp. I’ll check again tomorrow, but my money is on not many (if any) thorns).

I think the conclusion (at least on GF) was that the JFaE Mango Dong is the same as the JFaE Autumn Beauty. And that both are actually AB (they ripen at the same time for me (early mid), look the same, similar brix, flavor, and size).

That doesn’t look too small. But taking forever to ripen would be a problem.

I think Zao is the correct word for jujube in Chinese.

Do they still have a crisp crunch at that point? Mine was less than half brown and still had 25 brix.


My Black Sea tree has no thorns either. It has not fruited yet though so I cannot confirm it’s identity.


I don’t know if there are other fruit trees that have so many identities mixed up like jujubes :weary:

@BobVance - before Halina was mentioned, I was convinced that you had a complete collection of jujubes. Now my confidence is badly shaken :rofl:

I ate Massandra in between eating HJ, SC and Black Sea. Massandra did not measure up. I hold out hope that its taste will improve as the tree matures.


perhaps quality will get better when the scion gets seasoned. V. baby fruits should attain 3/4" at the largest, so not really worth it if you can get bigger-fruited cultivars to fruit in your locale( that are similar to sihong).


Kitaiski 60, yes it sounds identical but who grows it under this name?


Yes Massandra still crunchy, 3 days after turning all brown


That was the name of one of Roger Meyer’s 6 Russian cultivars.

If RM’s Russia #2 is the same as Chinese Red Dates Russia #2, then I don’t think that it is Massandra. The fruit isn’t anywhere near as long. It is similar to Black Sea instead. Add in the new Confetti from OGW (“Yalta No. 2 cv.”) and the Russian varieties are getting pretty confusing, just like Winter Delight.


It’ll be one that goes out in the orchard. Because it was a young potted tree I don’t know what it will do on a regular year. The fruit set late and it needs more time to see what it will do. The fruit was very good and a good size to eat like popcorn!


Unfortunately I didn’t take any pictures, but my Russian #2 (from Chinese Red Date) and Black Sea (from One Green World) trees fruited this summer, and I don’t think they are the same at all. Russian #2 ripened earlier - at the same time as Honey Jar - and was of comparable size and sweetness to Honey Jar (from Dave Wilson Nursery). The most notable difference between Russian #2 and Honey Jar was the fruit shape, with Russian #2 having more round, tapered ends, and Honey Jar fruits much more flat ends. Black Sea fruit were similar in shape to Russian #2, but they started ripening a couple weeks later and were 50% to 100% larger. I think all three taste good, but some of the Black Sea fruit had a slightly bitter aftertaste. It was less noticeable after we got a couple inches of rain.


I didn’t say that Massandra is Russia#2 as I have no idea what that might be unless I can see the picture of fruit, stone and other characteristics of the tree like thorniness, shape of the leaves and so on.
The confusion starts in your country, I’m afraid, when someone imports (this is a polite version) plant material from Crimea, renames it for a “trade mark” name and than sells it as their own merchandise.
Some of these plants are plant protected in their country of origin. I am scared to think if someone likes my Halina jujube and renames it for a market reasons.
What I’m saying is that Massandra is probably Kitaiski 60, correctly Китайский 60 a very popular and widespread variety in Crimea, Ukraine and Russia. Fruits are medium sized (around 5g) with a distinct nose tip and a good fresh eating quality. I should be getting it from Crimea this coming winter so hopefully I will share some pictures with you in a near future.


RM’s Russia #2 is Kitaiski 60, so it sounds like the question is if RM’s Russia #2 is the same as CRD’s Russia #2. RM is deceased, but I can ask CRD if they know the source.

Sounds good- pics would help. I’m going to post pics of mine into the above thread on Russian jujus.

Black Sea has a very pronounced nose tip. But I just went out and fondled some unripe Massandra and found that they also have nose tips. I then picked two Russia #4 and one of them had a nose tip, while the other didn’t. So, it seems like many/most of the Russian jujubes have those tips and are medium sized (Massandra seems to be the largest of them). Russia #4 is the only one I’ve had which doesn’t seem to have good eating quality (#2, Black Sea, and Massandra were all good).

Agreed- I think OGW is responsible for a lot of the confusion, both here and with the Winter Delight/Autumn Beauty issue.

This is the first Tsao I’ve had (grafted last year). After I got it, I read that while productive, it wasn’t very good to eat. But, this one was fine. It may have helped that I picked it during a rain storm, but it was juicy and crisp. The one complaint I have is that the pit comes to a very thin point, which seems easy to break off when eating around it.

The So I picked at the same time (same tree) was not as good as in the past. In fact, most of the So I’ve had this year have been sub-par. Hopefully the inch plus of rain we got last night will help with the rest of the sizable crop.


I don’t usually do it but I have borrowed few pictures of Kitaiski 60 from my russian colleagues (my apologies to the owners) just for the comparison. I think that the fruit shape is quite typical:

Nope. I hope that I can prove it very soon with some pictures (this time mine). They have the variety Koktebel which is round shape and can reach 50 gram.


Those certainly look like Massandra. Much more elongated than Black Sea and Russia #2.

Nice! Is Koktebel a re-named cultivar (like Globe, Redlands, ShanXi Li, etc, though the last two aren’t round…) or is it a cultivar that was bred there?


Koktebel was selected in NBS and released in 2007.


My first Dabailing.


Confetti, one of the new cultivars from OGW. It’s definitely not Black Sea, Coco, or Massandra.


I hope it is not called confetti because it produces small pieces of fruit like those real confetti