We started our apple growing experiment about 8 years ago with 200 trees and added more trees each year until we had about 800 trees. After comparing the financial results produced by the acre of high density apples against those produced by an acre or peaches, blackberries or blueberries its easy to see our apple experiment has been a failure.
The apples produce less than 1/4 the net revenue of the other crops. My wife who is from apple country in Virginia tried to tell me that I could not grow apples in my part of NC. I should have listened!
How did you compute net revenue? Apples are a lot easier to pick for example. Also were the trees fully producing? I’m a bit surprised it is so different, maybe there are just a lot of apple growers out there losing their shirts.
Have you considered planting cider varieties? I’m originally from Apple country in Central Virginia and cider apples / apples for local market are helping small and medium Growers bring in revenue. For example, Bold Rock cider, which is a growing brand here in the Mid-Atlantic, is based in Nelson County which is one hour south of where my parents live and if they continue to grow, I’m sure they will continue to source local apples.
I don’t hire any help so I don’t figure the cost of my labor into the profit but the apples probably require a similar amount of total labor compared to the other crops because of the amount of time required to spray. I only spray a fraction of what is suggested but each spray requires about 2 hours including mixing and clean up. Pruning dwarf apples is a lot faster than peaches or blackberries.
Unfortunately the yields on the apple trees were a lot less than expected and the production cost were a lot higher. Chemical costs - especially modern chemicals are very expensive. Apples require a lot more chemicals than peaches. Blackberries and Blueberries require few chemicals.
Apples are the most interesting thing I have ever grown, but the economics in a marginal climate like mine are not nearly as good as blackberries, blueberries or peaches.
We don’t have a solid plan at this time. We are going to remove the lest profitable trees and try one more year in 2019. Unless profits improve we may turn the Apple orchard into a pig pin in 2020… A high tensile deer fence encloses the entire area and we could just let the apple trees grow with no spray and see how well they survive fireblight and let the pigs eat the fruit from the trees that survive.
Why not intercrop them with other trees, cutting the apple trees out as they die or as the new trees beside them come into production? Would chestnuts do well in your area? The apples would force the nuts to grow straight up for light so you wouldn’t have to do as much pruning. While they establish and the apples are still there you could still move the pigs through in the fall to clean up fallen apples. Then after the nuts come into production and the apples are removed, you could do the same thing after the nut harvest is finished to clean up any missed nuts.
Thank you for chestnut idea. I like the idea of chestnut inter-crop and they do well in my area. Perhaps Pecan too. Unfortunately, I’m getting older and time is short.
I believe I could do a lot better with apples if I got a do-over and I could choose the right varieties on the proper rootstocks.
LOTS of newer hard cider companies starting up. Good suggestion, IMO.
It does sound like blueberrythrill is about fed up with messing with apples though. It is a lot of work to get them to produce fruit of any quality. I’m getting older as well and it is tougher to do every year. Good luck with whatever decision you end up making. It is not something you can make a decision about in a split second. Lots of thinking and figuring out what is the best direction to go in.
Thanks for the response. I can sell all the apples I grow, but I can’t produce reasonable yields of sell-able quality apples in my area even with a moderate spray program. I’m only 2 1/2 hours away from Nelson county but apple growing conditions here are not nearly as good as there.
We like central Va area and have been to Bold Rock Cider a few times. I prefer some of their mass marketed cider compared to other NC/VA “craft” cider brands which are saturated with Co2.
I thought I was the only person thinking about age when I plant a tree. people talk to me about growing trees like I was 30 yos instead of pushing 80. I’m planting another ten this yr and willing to take bets that I’ll never eat an apple off them, hopefully someone will benefit from them
An elderly lady said to her neighbour who grew fruit trees “I’d like to plant an apple tree, but it would take 5 years to get any fruit, and I’m too old”. The neighbour asked “How old will you be in 5 years when the tree is fruiting for you if you plant an apple tree?” The lady triumphantly replied “I’ll be 87 years old when it fruits in 5 years!” To which the neighbour replied “And how old will you be in 5 years if you don’t plant the tree?”
Depending on the size and type of trees you have, you might consider letting people try digging up and removing the apple trees you want to get rid of. Successful transplant might be possible.
If you do decide to try apples again, you might try contacting David Vernon at Century Farm Orchards (http://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/) in Reidsville, NC. Century Farm Orchards specializes in apple varieties that do well in the hot and humid South. Kuffel Creek (Site Unavailable | WestHost) is similar, except that they supply apples to even more demanding areas (e.g., Mumbia, India and Dubai, UAE).
Scott F. Smith who runs this forum grows apples in the Baltimore area, which also gets very hot and humid in the summer. He would likely have insight into cultivars that could do well for you.
This year was really bad for apples due to all the rain, even in the Virginia apple belt. One grower said he produced one-quarter of his normal annual crop. I’ve heard anecdotally that some growers had practically no crop at all to speak of.
I suspect that with the right cultivars you would probably do okay for the most part. Cultivars that aren’t suitable to your climate would doom your efforts, unfortunately. Of course a year with very heavy rain can cause problems for most cultivars and it may be that you would have had trouble this year no matter what you were growing.
BTW, if you do decide to remove some of the cultivars you have and would consider allowing someone to have the trees - assuming it might be possible to dig up the trees and move them - please let me know.
You said they are on a dwarfing rootstock in a high-density planting, which makes me wonder if transplanting them might be possible.
Thank you for that idea. I had not considered it. I could probably dig the trees and sell them to the folks buying apples
I could do better with the apples if I had the time and determination to try again but I need to spend more time with the crops that make money and less time on the apples which don’t make much money.
If I tried again , I would not plant any B9 rootstocks. probably only G11 and G41. Also I would only plant late varieties starting with Fuji, and moving to Old Fashion Winesap. Goldrush, Granny, Pink Lady and Arkansas Black. This would allow me to compress my apple season into about 6 weeks in the fall.
We know some commercial apple growers in central Virginia who had a bad year like you mentioned. Too much rain produced a lot of bitter rot and other defects so many of their apples did not pass traditional grade standards and had to be sold for juice for very little money. We know one orchard that processes a lot of fresh cider where his apple quality was so bad he had to buy a lot of apples to keep the cider flowing.
Overall we have learned that it makes a lot more sense for us to grow the things that grow well in our area like blackberries, blueberries and peaches and leave the apple growing to people in a much better climate where its cooler and dryer. Washington state produces about 2 out of every 3 apples sold for fresh consumption for a very good reason.
As someone who used to keep bees, (and rent them to the largest orchard in my county)….that may be the problem with your lack of a crop? That, plus freezes or frost…but Hendersonville, NC area produces apples at a profit…not sure why Greensboro couldn’t?
In the interests of fairness to your customers and to avoid problems down the road (e.g., customer complaints due to dissatisfaction and neglected apple trees becoming havens for pests and diseases), I’d suggest you do things.
First, let your customers know that the trees you are getting rid of didn’t produce well enough to be commercially viable (probably due to the hot climate). Depending on where you are located and where your customers are from, this might also result in customers who live on or in the hills - and thus have cooler weather - being the ones who buy the majority of the trees.
Second, give them printed copies of a university extension service handout on how to prevent apple diseases and pest attacks (e.g., what and when to spray, etc.). This information doesn’t have to be comprehensive; if you tell them they ought to look up more online and consult their local agricultural extension office if they have any questions, this will put many of them light years ahead of where they’d be otherwise as many people are under the impression you can just plant an apple tree, leave it alone, and get good eating apples. As I said earlier, this will forestall problems that otherwise may pop up later on such as dissatisfied customers and additional disease and pest pressure, even if the incremental difference to you is minimal.
If you do decide to sell some of your apple trees, I’d also suggest letting the people here know about it as you may find some takers from the Growing Fruit crowd.