I should have known by how thick the wood is. I’ve not grown persimmon so I’m not so familiar.
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Persimmon are a mysterious tree in many ways but very rewarding to grow. Can’t recommend them highly enough! Persimmon breeding is still in its infancy. In our lifetime i hope to see many amazing improvements to these valuable fruits.
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Inspired by this thread, about 3 weeks ago tried grafting some plums using scions cut from this season’s new growth. The two pictures below were taken a few days ago. Both are “Robusto” chickasaw/japanese scions. One is grafted on native chickasaw rootstock, the other on a purple leaf plum cultivar (prunus cerasifera) which is very well adapted to my climate and soil. Both have grown great, and should have plenty of time to grow and harden off before first frost. Thanks for the inspiration to give this a try.
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What I love about this thread is that it makes you think outside the box.
If you are always told something is a certain way, you never think of testing it, trying something new, or innovating.
If you want to try it, try it. The great thing about gardening is trying new things is usually not an expensive risk to take.
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You said it very well! Every year grafts fail there is a reason why. Sometimes it is incompatibility. Graft or tree doesn’t always have adequate moisture. Temperatures can swing wildly causing graft failures if the scions dry out before the graft takes. Oil from the graft can seap into the graft union preventing callusing etc. I’m very thankful for the difficult callery pears i grafted years ago. Failure taught me many more lessons than success. Have grafted things in ways that will hopefully benefit people for many years to come. As others like those who post on this thread put themselves out there and try something new we will learn from it. Every time we get better at what we do. @haldog is in zone 7b and had no problem with late season grafting. Experts will tell us that type of grafting can only be done in early spring. A years growth on a fruit tree is going to put us in fruits from a tree an entire year earlier!
It does not seem like it but this old thread was over 5 years ago. Will fall-budded buds swell at the same time as the tree budded to? . @fruitnut put up this thread to help people with late season grafting
T-budding tutorial . There are many inspiring posts in that thread!
“Mine grew into a tree now. @fruitnut did a great tutorial T-budding tutorial - #41 by BobVance - Guides - Growing Fruit Which I think will answer about anything you want to know about tbud grafting. That’s where I learned and I tried it a couple of times with fantastic results. I did this tbud graft in July of 2016. Here is a photo overview. Pictures for some reason always get shuffled out of order but these photos give you the process start to finish and it’s now been nearly 2 years ago since I initially grafted.
”
Those tbuds are now 30 foot tall trees! @JesusisLordandChrist on this thread The price of fruit trees is too expensive - #504 by Shibumi mentioned that people literally cannot afford a fruit tree now. That is very true , many families are spending more on 1 fruit tree than i spent on 30 fruit trees. If only the ultra wealthy have fruit trees and the people who need them most cannot afford them then we have reverted to the old system of peasants and royalty.
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So here’s a question.
Can you graft first year growth to first year growth?
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Green wood to green wood can be done and i have done it. It takes very delicate touch or it breaks off or wilts in your fingers. New growth is very fragile. Grafting watermelon to pumpkin is discussed here Can't grow watermelon but can grow pumpkins? which is green vegetable growth. Have only done it with pears myself.
Hmmmm.
Thanks. Males sense. I can see where it would be more difficult.
I have a first year Minnie Royal Cherry that is doing very well worth lots of growth. I have a Royal Lee which is it’s pollinator (and visa versa) which only had two small branches of new growth and it droops a lot, though it’s getting the same watering.
My fear is I lose the Lee. Thought of grafting a piece to Minnie.
Actually since Minnie is doing so well, I can probably cut back to last year’s wood on one branch.
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I’ve certainly read and seen that many plants droop during the heat of the day, but since the two cherries right next to Lee don’t I’ve become an overly concerned parent.
I need to find some oil free clay around here.
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That’s what I did with my plums. However, I’ve got a very long growing season and very vigorous rootstocks and scions. When I pruned the Robusto to get the scions, I pruned off sections of new growth that were easily four feet long. So, both the rootstocks and scions weren’t as delicate as you might think.
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I went to see the potential cherry graft recipient tree and it’s got good growth as well. Cherry, like pear, seems to put out quite a thick new growth branch.
Plum is delicately tiny by comparison.
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Please keep those 100+ degree temperatures out of Georgia. Our predicted high this week is 91. So far, we’ve had mild summer temperatures but incredible humidity, with very frequent though not necessarily hard rains. My success might have something to do with those favorable conditions.
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So @clarkinks
I just ordered a 5 lb block of the plastilina. I also found that I actually have the same parafilm you linked to earlier in the post. 1". Apparently all the grafts I did this spring were using a different kind that was almost clear in color with a much lower wax content. The buds didn’t break through the film so I would go around and slice the film to free them. I wonder how much that played into some of my failures.
OK so if I want to graft a few of my cherries next week here are my options.
Wood and scion:
Green growth on green growth
Green growth on last year’s wood
Graft type:
Tongue and groove
Vee
Covering:
Parafilm only
Parafilm and plastilina
Tin foil hat for either
Concerns:
Weight of the plastilina if doing green on green.
When taking the scion, since it’s green with leaves, remove all the leaves and cut to 2 or 3 petioles?
Support - use a twig and tie to each side of the graft for rigidity.
It will be hard to wrap the parafilm around the more tender green growth since you need to apply some pressure to stretch it. I’d assume you wrap the green scion first the accomplish the graft and wrap the graft itself, then add the clay to the graft area to a bit above and below?
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A few short videos to show the condition of the cherry limbs.
This years growth has actually hardened off well.
The Minnie Royal is the recipient tree in the first two videos.
The third video is the Royal Crimson I want to take the scion from. Unfortunately I only have three new growth short branches. They will obviously be a smaller caliper so if I want to graft near the trunk of the recipient tree there will be a small mismatch on caliper.
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I watched the videos. That growth doesn’t look green to me. It’s hardened up quite a bit. I’d go green on green or both if you can. Wrap the scion fully before starting the graft. Cut off all the leaves and petioles leaving just a stub that can be covered. Wrap up the graft union tightly. Then I’d cover the whole thing with aluminum foil for two weeks.
The alternative would be a chip bud covered with parafilm and wrapped tight. You could do both the graft and the bud lower on the same limb.
Cherries are much harder to graft than other stone fruit in my experience. So good luck.
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I have been using the term ‘green wood’ to refer to this year’s growth as opposed to last years.
Obviously the new growth hardens over time so yes it is rather firm.
My thoughts are to add a branch or two from RC to MR so I’m only thinking of a lateral branch graft. A chip but would have to be done on the trunk and I don’t have the confidence for that I don’t think. I’ve read somewhere that chip budding is a bit difficult on cherries?
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Everything I’ve tried on cherry has been difficult. Don’t try chip or T buds on anything with thick bark or last years wood. Even on the easy stone fruits, thick bark and old wood isn’t compatible with budding. Some kind of grafting is better.
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