@ Richard,
Ryan’s idea would benefit a lot of growers with shorter growing seasons. Someone near Cliff England who could sit with him for a day or so could probably fill this data easily. Either compared with a well known variety or list as early, mid or late season ripening. Of all the data this would be the most important one for northern growers.
Thanks for your energy and innovative approach.
Dennis
Kent, Wa
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I believe @DennisD makes a good point about the needs of “backyard” growers vs. agriculturists. The latter have a working knowledge of Growing Degree Days but the backyard growers do not. The backyard growers are the largest interest group.
What do you folks think about focusing on harvest dates in 4 locations with different climates and at least one member to provide data? For example:
Wayne County TN
central KY
Omaha NB
Tracy CA
??
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That is workable, but I’m in southern Tennessee just above Florence, AL. Same point though, my climate is very similar to conditions across north Alabama, Tennessee, north Georgia, both Carolinas, and north Mississippi. The only problem is that I am just now starting to plant persimmons. I have plenty of wild trees of the tetraploid DV variant.
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I think exact dates are too variable. It’s more than sufficient to divide ripening times into 7 categories:
very early
early
early mid-season
mid-season
late mid-season
late
very late
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Yes, that’s an excellent point. And then we’d use those per location?
I think it’s enough to have those designated in one “middle” location by a grower who has many different varieties fruiting under similar conditions. Check what @BobVance did for jujubes, that’s exactly what I have in mind.
If a variety changes one category (or maybe even two, which is very unlikely) in a different location, it’s not a big deal. People in northern location will just avoid varieties ripening in a number of late categories, depending on how far north they are.
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@Barkslip ,@tonyOmahaz5 ,@Fusion_power
What do you think about this?
(Stan) I think it’s enough to have those designated in one “middle” location by a grower who has many different varieties fruiting under similar conditions.
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What source would ya’ll use for growing degree days? I would use weather spark. Do ya’ll consider it accurate? Cuenca Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Spain) - Weather Spark
I usually use Growing Degree Unit (GDU) Calculator | Pioneer® Seeds. I find Weathersparks is not that accurate for my location due to a large amount of microclimates in the immediate area. I am hoping to keep track of the GDU’s myself this summer and compare to Pioneers numbers.
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fine, plenty of data that would be ‘central’ to all.
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Ok, here’s tonight’s version. Perhaps some of you can provide information for the items marked with question marks?
| Name | Aliases | U.S. Sources | Sex(es) | Parthenocarpic | Astringent | Estimated °F Cold Hardiness | Typical mass (grams) | central KY harvest* | Parentage | % kaki | % virginiana | %unknown | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 400-5 | England’s Orchard | male | ? | -33 | Rosseyanka × OP | 25% | 25% | 50% | |||||
| Bozhy Dar | Threefold Farm | both | ? | ? | ? | ||||||||
| Costata | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ||||||||
| Chuchupaka | ? | both | PCA | -20 | 100 | ||||||||
| Dar Sofiyivky | Tony in Omaha | female | PCA | -20 | Kolhospnytsia D.k. × D.v. | 50% | 50% | 0% | |||||
| Dr. Kazas | ? | female | PCA | -22 | Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × OP | 12.5% | 12.5% | 75% | |||||
| Gora Goverla | ? | female | PCA | -8 | |||||||||
| Gora Rogers | ? | female | PCA | -8 | |||||||||
| Gora Roman Kosh | ? | female | ? | PCA | -8 | Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × OP | 12.5% | 12.5% | 75% | ||||
| JBT-06 | England’s Orchard | female | PCA | -22 | |||||||||
| Journey | England’s Orchard | female | ? | ? | Unknown 1 × Unknown 2 | 12.5% | 37.5% | 50% | |||||
| Kuji Naja | England’s Orchard | ? | PVNA | ? | Costata × Rosseymale | ||||||||
| Mikkusu | JT-02 | England’s Orchard | female | PCA | -22 | ||||||||
| Nikitskaya Bordovaya | Nikitas Gift | Trees of Antiquity | female | yes | PCA | -10 | Rosseyanka × OP | 25% | 25% | 50% | |||
| Omaha | Tony in Omaha | ? | ? | -20 | Prok D.v. × 400-5 | 12.5% | 62.5% | 25% | |||||
| Pamjat Pasenkova | ? | female | PCA | -10 | Rosseyanka bud sport | 50% | 50% | 0% | better resistance to late-winter and early-spring frosts | ||||
| Rosseyanka | England’s Orchard | female | PCA | -13 | no.213 D.v. × form 48 or 145 D.k. | 50% | 50% | 0% | |||||
| Rosseymale | England’s Orchard | male | PCA | -22 | Rosseyanka × ? | ||||||||
| Sestronka | NB-21 | England’s Orchard | female | PCA | 0 | N.B. seedling × D.v. | |||||||
| Sosnovskaya | ? | female | PCA | -20 | D.k × D.v. ? | ||||||||
| ? | Unknown 1 | England’s Orchard | ? | ? | ? | Great Wall D.k. × Rosseymale | 25% | 25% | 50% | ||||
| ? | Unknown 2 | ? | ? | ? | Early Jewel D.v. × OP | 50% | 50% | ||||||
| Zima Khurma | NB-02 | England’s Orchard | female | PCA | ? | Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × ? | |||||||
| ? | ? | ? | PCA | 0 | Rosseyanka × Honan Red | ||||||||
| ? | England’s Orchard | ? | PVNA | -20 | Costata × Rosseymale |
*very early, early, early mid-season, mid-season, late mid-season, late, very late.
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JT-02 and JBT-06 50% DV/ 50% Kaki. Parentage Josephine DV X Taishu Kaki.
Tony
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My climate is very similar to yours. What kaki hybrid persimmons do you consider 100% hardy to our climate that you grow personally. Those will be ones i’m interested in.
JT-02 so far is a solid Z5. Survived to at least -24 to -26 F for a 2 nights. Died at -33F in 2019 Polar Vortex. @clarkinks
Tony
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@Lucky_P would you be the lower middle of the country person that watches bloom and harvesting periods? Which hybrid-cultivars do you have currently? Tony & I will help you get the rest.
Tony has a bit more tame zone 5b than me:
Aledo, IL. is going to be the truest zone 5b about anyone come up with.
I’ve got a 24-hour temperature weather station now that’s more accurate than this and am keeping my data.
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How is taste and size? Nikitas gift is pretty large but not truly hardy to my zone.
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@Barkslip,
I’m in 6b, just about 20 miles north of the current dividing line between 6b and 7a.
Right now I have Rosseyanka, JT-02, NB-21, Casandra, David’s Kandy Korn, and one of the F2 Rosseyanka males from Cliff, but IDK which one.
Have tried grafting Nikita’s Gift on about 4 different occasions… for whatever reason… it just will not ‘take’ for me. Scionwood in the past has had those troubling ‘black streaks’ in it… though I think scions @cousinfloyd sent me last year were clean - but still no takes.
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Thanks, you’re in charge now. 
Dax
As I start to get more trees in ground, I’ll be happy to include my data in the mix too. Similarly to lucky, I’m solidly on 6b but probably edging towards 7a except on the years Canada sends us an extra blast of cold.
I’ll begin taking notes as well on temperature.
@Barkslip is there a post you could refer me to on your weather station, or does anyone else have a recommendation for getting accurate data specific to my location?
Lucky, my Nikita’s Gift needs a prune. I’ll send you some clean wood to try again if you want. PM me if you do.
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