Volodymyr Mezhenskyj and wife comes to mind, their breeding accomplishments at a Ukrainian university are mind-boggling.
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Sorry, but this deserves a big smiley !
As dumb as some of these emoti-things are. But I like @k8tpayaso 's a lot. Thanks for that her.
Dax
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I was told that ‘Korolek’ is a fake from Ukraine. This is confirmed. This is one of the Champions of Ukrainian breeding. He was given all the files from Chernyaev. Here’s the article:
https://agrarii-razom.com.ua/news-agro/na-zakarpatti-selekcioner-viroshue-ponad-100-sortiv-hurmi
‘Smuglyana’ is another Ukrainian hoax “fake” (cultivar…)
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Dax, thanks for sharing. What is meant by ‘fake’ for those names?
Is it that they re-named an already existing variety, or something else? I might have missed it.
I translated the article and saw a progeny of ‘Mider’ (I assume Meeder, translation error in Google?) ripens for him August 15th. That seems pretty early to me from my limited ripening time knowledge.
You impress me to have found all this information.
I have Michel Zeldi on the phone who explained his selection to me.
My Krimkaya 55, Cherniaev, Rosseyanka 2 come out of his garden.
He died last June.
The Rosseyanka 2 (a sister of Nikita’s gift, created at the same time) was only given to 2 people. One in Slovenia and me. He used it a lot for his selection. The tree had been donated by Dr. Kazas. All these names begin to speak to you.
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This is apparently a brand name used in Ukraine stores for one or more cultivar(s). The same thing occurs in the U.S. for a large number of fruits: apples, avocado, citrus, pit fruits, …
'Korolek’ is no concern to us in this thread unless someone is selling a tree by that name in the U.S.
I don’t want it here and to mess with my own-time, mr. Richard-mon’ Jamacan.
Dax
@Barkslip
If someone in Europe is peddling sticks of it then you’d have reason to avoid that seller.
Who’s Europe?
@Arthus
It’s because… I’m not-looking… I never stop searching while reading i.e.
Barkslip
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There are many peddlers-of-plant-sticks in the geographic area of Europe, some of whom successfully deliver scion into the U.S. Their products are not limited to persimmon. I have no interest in them since I have a USDA-approved quarantine area and a license to receive plant material from qualified repositories world-wide.
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Richard – I try to keep my comments fact-based, never personal. I respond here as I do solely because your attack on me is personal. I promise to never talk about you if you never to talk about me.
I have plenty of reasonable and productive exchanges with other forum members. Some of those exchanges include challenges of stated “facts” and derived conclusions, including challenges of my own stated “facts” and conclusions. In general, I think I take these challenges in stride. I may defend a position vigorously, but I don’t attack the person who disagrees with me.
You seem simply unwilling to tolerate (and implicitly or explicitly demean) anyone who doesn’t see the world the way you do. For example, listening to you I’d think that persimmon scientists in Japan and China are idiots, using outdated terms such as “dominant” and “recessive,” using methodologies that are worthless because they are not perfect. I’d rather see the bottle as half full.
Who is unreasonable? You ghosted me in this thread. Repeatedly I suggested that your entry “JT-06” does not exist. You ignored me. Repeatedly I suggested that Kassandra is PCA. You ignored me. Finally you changed the list to reflect these facts. But in the meantime you’ve behaved like a TV caricature of a high school “mean girl.”
Who is unreasonable? When you recently suggested that D Kaki has been growing in Anatolia for 1000 years, I showed you two scientific articles by Turkish authors saying the history goes back ~200 years and specifically pointing to a path for D Kaki from East Asia to Southern France circa 1760 and then across the Mediterranean. You told me that the scientists (such dummies!) didn’t recognize the synonymy of D. kaki and D. chinensis. And you refused to supply one supporting reference of your own.
Yes, I am primarily interested in a more cold hardy seedless PCNA. I state that objective loud and clear. My focus on JT-02 x Taishu is based on a belief that it probably presents the best path. Meanwhile, I have never denigrated anyone who has a different goal. I fully appreciate that cold-hardiness and early ripening may be a higher priority that non-astringency. I challenge you to show me any example of my own bad behavior.
I realize that I have pissed off many forum members (besides you) with my incessant questioning of what I think may be persimmon misinformation or persimmon myths. Most recently, I questioned whether Luther Burbank produced the 1st DV x DK hybrid (Keener) as once claimed in a document that you recently posted here. Everyone now agrees that he didn’t. A few days before, I questioned whether Cliff England created ~40 DV x DK hybrids using a not well documented Kaki named Hokkaido, as reflected in this current list. A few days before, I questioned whether a reported PVNA variety in Cliff’s inventory can actually be Costata x Rossey 2 (or can actually be PVNA rather than PVA or PCA). A month or so ago, I questioned whether Morris Burton (DV) shares an astringency gene with J-PCNAs, as one claimed. The assembled evidence implies no. A couple months ago, I challenged a forum member’s account of the ancestry of NB-02 & NB-21 (he got really upset). FWIW, your current list rejects his story (and mine). None of this is unreasonable IMO.
You can go back to ghosting me now.
Here’s an interesting comment by M. Zeldi in the article:
There I read for the first time about how a persimmon that can take root in our latitudes was bred in the Crimea - Russian woman-18 (Росіянка-18).
As provided in the most recent list above:
Росіянка = Rossiyanka = Russian Woman.
M. Zeldi went to the trouble to mention #18. Whether other crosses we have with female “Rossiyanka” are all from the same numeral will probably never be known.
Looking a little further, a better name for “Rossiy Male” might be
Cин росіянки
“Son of a Russian woman”
or some Anglicization.
I’m not sure where this statement is targeted, however, Morris Burton does not have the same astringency reduction as is present in JPCNA’s. It does appear to have significantly reduced astringency as indicated in the many articles extolling its excellent flavor. There will come a time when the astringency reduction is understood for both. We aren’t there yet.
Someone pays for anything ultimately… ‘someone’ does. that’s all I’m open to saying. Dax
I’m going to go one step further so there’s no misunderstanding. If you get it for free, someone=anyone paid for it!
Unless you bred it and distributed it for free or somehow got it for free, you better have a damn good personality and positive attitude.
Dax
The issue is these peddlers-of-plant-sticks are sloppy and sometimes misleading with plant names due to the nature of their operation. In Europe, there is much folklore about plant names which has been going on for centuries. Sellers there delight in how readily Americans gobble it up.
I think you’re missing the point which is to breed.
Good luck, right?
Thank you for now. I’m resting on this subject no doubts in anyone’s minds about it.
Accurate histories are important in breeding, since they can save many (plant) generations of work. It is difficult to do with inaccurate names. Whether those under discussion here are accurate or not I don’t know. My experience is with other fruits and other peddlers-of-plant-sticks.
That’s why I always say knowing is more important than having. Having always comes after knowing. (Knowing what and knowing with whom!)
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