List of hybrid persimmon species available in USA

General Fruit Growing
82

I don’t have space for many persimmon trees and I would not have use for all that harvest. Every second house in my area has a big kaki tree and doesn’t know what to do with all the fruit.

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83

I would be honored Richard to help where I could. I currently have Journey and JT-02 scion wood to hot callous pipe graft this spring thanks to Dax’s expertise. I also have Nikitas Gift in a pot, where it will have to stay. Land is not an issue (I have about 80 acres, only 25 in woods, the rest in upland pasture/field). This is a real experimental trial zone for persimmons, not because of cold dips though, (Tony gets colder dips then me), but because I’m lucky to pull off 2,500 GDU’s (on a 50 degree base) per year and late frosts. If we can find something to work here though, you could grow it in 90% of the Midwest/New England I betcha.

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84

Use seeds Eli i. Poke a hole as deep as you are able to with a mini sledge and 3.5 ft. chunk of rebar or just a metal stake for cages, etc. Plant your seed after you’ve germinated it and it has it’s first set of leaves either on or coming on. keep em’ watered, watch em grow. Put a tree tube over each and you’ll have them out of the tube in 2-seasons and ready to graft at 1.5" caliper on year 2-is. They’ll be out of the tops of a 5-footer in 1.5 seasons.

Dax

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85

Does your proximity to the water (Superior) moderate your temps in the winter/spring?

I’m a troll many hours south (and east) of you and my proximity to a large (but not great) lake moderates my weather significantly.

I’ve got RossyxHonan planted in an incredibly protected area down here. Hoping to have good news about it coming out of dormancy this spring. Last I looked (this past week) everything looks good.

Scott

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86

Ok! Happy to hear from Eli & Scott. ANYONE reading this thread that would like to supply data I have only two requests:

For cold hardiness, bloom season, harvest season:

  • the tree is planted in the ground in the U.S.

For all other data:

  • you supply a U.S. source for the plant, preferably a nursery but a member here works too.
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87

Sounds good. I already got a jump on some of that. I have about 50 D.v. seedlings growing in thier permanent locations, and planted 25 more seeds this fall. Your suggestion on tree tubes is the ticket, I believe, to getting them to grow faster then they have been. I haven’t got them on yet, but have ordered and got them in, and will get them around the trees when the snow goes. I will follow your advice and attempt to field graft when the trees are larger. Thank you.

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88

Hello, Scott! Hope your persimmon proves a winter champ. Love how you automatically state your a troll. Holy Wah, that’s funny. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: The Lake does indeed moderate. It essentially steals a month from us in spring, gives us some extra time in autumn, then keeps us warmer than interior/norther Wisconsin, and dumps lots and lots of snow on us, (which is a bonus, last year we hit -20 below one night, but we had so much snow that the ground never really froze and my globe artichokes came back in spring).

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89

For the seasons, I will try listing the relative season followed by location in parentheses as shown in Kasandra. If it someplace ambiguous, I’ll put location and zone, as in (CA 10b).

Name Aliases U.S. Sources Sex of Flowers Parthenocarpic (female flowers that set w/o pollen) Astringent Typical weight (lbs) Estimated °F Cold Hardiness Bloom season¹ Harvest season² Parentage % kaki % virginiana %unknown Notes
400-5 England’s Orchard male ? -33 Rosseyanka × OP 25% 25% 50%
Bozhy Dar Threefold Farm both ? ? ?
Costata ? ? ? ? ?
Chuchupaka ? both PCA 0.2 -20
Dar Sofiyivky Tony in Omaha female PCA -20 Kolhospnytsia D.k. × D.v. 50% 50% 0%
Dr. Kazas ? female PCA -22 Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × OP 12.5% 12.5% 75%
Gora Goverla ? female PCA -8
Gora Rogers ? female PCA -8
Gora Roman Kosh ? female ? PCA -8 Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × OP 12.5% 12.5% 75%
JBT-02 England’s Orchard female PCA JT-02 × D.v. 25% 75% 0%
JBT-06 England’s Orchard female PCA -22 JT-06 × D.v. 25% 75% 0%
Journey England’s Orchard female ? ? Unknown 1 × Unknown 2 12.5% 37.5% 50%
Kasandra England’s Orchard female ? -16 mid-season (KY) D.v. × Unknown 3 34.375% 59.375% 6.25%
Kuji Naja England’s Orchard ? PVNA ? Costata × Rosseymale
Mikkusu JT-02 England’s Orchard female PCA -22 Josephine D.v. × Taishu D.k. 25% 25% 50%
JT-06 England’s Orchard female PCA Josephine D.v. × Taishu D.k. 25% 25% 50%
Nikitskaya Bordovaya Nikitas Gift Trees of Antiquity female yes PCA -10 Rosseyanka × OP 25% 25% 50%
Omaha Tony in Omaha ? ? -20 Prok D.v. × 400-5 12.5% 62.5% 25%
Pamjat Pasenkova ? female PCA -10 Rosseyanka bud sport 50% 50% 0% better resistance to late-winter and early-spring frosts
Rosseyanka England’s Orchard female PCA -13 no.213 D.v. × form 48 or 145 D.k. 50% 50% 0%
Rosseymale England’s Orchard male PCA -22 Rosseyanka × ? 25% 25% 50%
Rossey F2 England’s Orchard male PCA Rosseyanka × Roseymale 37.5% 37.5% 25%
Sestronka NB-21 England’s Orchard female PCA 0 N.B. seedling × D.v.
Sosnovskaya ? female PCA -20 D.k × D.v. ?
? Unknown 1 England’s Orchard female ? ? Great Wall D.k. × Rosseymale 25% 25% 50%
? Unknown 2 England’s Orchard male ? ? Early Jewel D.v. × OP 50% 50%
? Unknown 3 England’s Orchard male Great Wall D.k. × Rossey F2 68.75% 18.75% 12.5%
Zima Khurma NB-02 England’s Orchard female PCA ? Nikitaskaya Bordovaya × ?
? ? ? PCA 0 Rosseyanka × Honan Red
? England’s Orchard ? PVNA -20 Costata × Rosseymale

¹very early, early, early mid-season, mid-season
²very early, early, early mid-season, mid-season, late mid-season, late, very late

GrowingFruit contributors to date: Stan C., Dennis D., Dax Herbst, Clark K., Ryan Mahoney, Tony N., Andrew Nguyen, Piotr P., Hal T.

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90

Dax, could you post the list of persimmons you have growing already and the list of varieties you plan to graft this spring?

There are a few F1’s in the list. It will be interesting to see some crosses made between them!

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91

@Richard

For Gora Roman Kosh sources, @Stan has a small tree that fruited in California. Dax and I both have a 2 years old tree in pots and hopefully they will flower this Spring for further crosses. I will plant out my own crosses of Hybrid persimmon seeds this Spring and the new Hybrid persimmon varieties will be: Tam Kam non-astringent Kaki X 400-5, H-120 Claypool DV X 400-5, H-118 Claypool DV X 400-5, Meader DV X 400-5, Morris Burton DV X 400-5, and Lena DV X 400-5. All these should be hardy to a solid Z5.

Tony

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92

I got from Cliff:
Nikita #4 (it must be good cause I didn’t ask for it)
Thor x Rossey

I got wood returned from trees I sold to a friend:
Sosnovskaya
Super Rosseyanka

I have to graft:
Dar Sofiyivky
Pamyat Chernieva
Gora Rogers
400-5 (male, Lehman’s Clone F1 Rosseyanka)

Tony’s sending:
NB-02
Kuji Naja

I already have grafted:
NB-21 / Sestronka
Gora Roman Kosh
Gora Goverla
David’s Kandy
Kasandra
Pamjat Pasenkova
JBT-06
JT-02
Chuchupaka
Dr. Kazas
-22 Rosseymale (England’s Clone F1 Rosseyanka)

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93

@Barkslip

Which ones are hardy outside in your zone?

94

I haven’t had a bad winter yet.

I’m planting anything -20 F and colder rated as far as we can tell.

I’ll also plant anything < -15 F

The chart already shows us which those are. My best-regards, Clark.

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99

Responding to two question marks:

  1. Costata. I don’t grow it but everywhere that I’ve seen (e.g., England’s), Costata is reported as PCA.

  2. Kassandra. I do grow Kassandra. It is almost certainly PCA. Almost all of the >1000 fruits I picked were unseeded and astringent until well ripened. Only a few had seeds, and there was no evidence of pollination variance in the flesh.

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104

I just got some scionwood from someone for Sovietski, which I was told is a hybrid. I don’t see it currently on the list, but am pretty sure Cliff was their source and he had said it was a hybrid. Anyone know enough about it to provide details for the list?

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107

Are there parthenocarpic (sometimes called self-fertile female) hybrids besides Nikitskaya Bordovaya aka Nikitas Gift which are available in the U.S.?

108

@PaulinKansas6b mentioned a picture from Cliff and then I found it in this Fall 2020 catalog:

http://www.nuttrees.net/FALL2020EONFALLCatalogue05AUG2020.pdf

I will add it.

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109

I haven’t seen this posted yet but perhaps a useful note. Most DK/DV F1 hybrids are hardy to -20 or -22 degrees. All were developed via embryo rescue. Better cold tolerance is available in the DV genome, some reports suggest a few trees can take -40 and possibly colder. F1’s back crossed to DV generally are hardy down to -35 to -38 degrees. This is just a general observation, there ARE outliers!

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110

Kassandra and JT-02/Mikkusu are both parthenocarpic and available. I’ve fruited both.

p.s. Seeing @Fusion_power’s apt comment below, I will clarify. As I said above, Kassandra and JT-02/Mikkusu are parthenocarpic (i.e., they ripen seedless fruit). They are NOT self-fertile (i.e., they do not produce male flowers and therefore cannot self-pollinate).

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111

We probably need to be more specific with “parthenocarpic” and “self-fertile”.

Parthenocarpic is reproduction without fertilization, i.e. a persimmon that produces seedless fruit in the absence of male flowers.

Self-fertile is ability to produce both male and female flowers and therefore able to self-fertilize and produce viable seed. Early Golden is known to be self-fertile producing some amount of male flowers.

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