Hope to graft Gascoyne’s Scarlett this year. Another Cox descendent with an interesting flavor profile. Iwill let you know when it fruits…lol
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Suggesting Mendocino Cox as an option, but I can’t tell you my experience as mine is on order, coming soon.
Maybe ask Neil at trees of antiquity his opinion.
He has several Cox relatives and a lot more experience than I.
I do have some cox relatives in the ground, but all are young, nothing to report yet.
I am sorry to hear that Rubinette is unhealthy and that kids red orange tastes like red delicious because I have both of those in the ground already.
I remember liking red delicious from the grocery store when it was really crispy and smaller but later it seemed like they were bigger but all mealy, very disappointing.
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It may just depend on where you are; neither of those things has been true for me so far, here in w. Montana.
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I am very glad to hear you had better results.
I know location makes a difference, mostly because I’ve heard that here many times.
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Has anyone grown Opal apple? Not an expert on apples but tasted this one from Traders Joe. Its small apple, gold with bronze coloring. Aromatic, excellent flavor, and balanced sweetness.
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How about Holstein? It is another triploid, like Karmijn, that makes a great high flavored apple. I see you list a Holsteiner Cox - I’m not sure if they are same. I heard it was from the prior East Germany region. When I lived in NW Washington state, I always had a Karmijn, an Alkmene and a Holstein. Karmijn was my absolute favorite. It holds its flavor well in a pie too.
Have you considered GoldRush? It is another high flavored variety that is disease resistant and keeps well. It only asks for a long growing season.
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Gold Rush is a terrific apple. I was lucky to be able to ripen it one year.
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why i didn’t add it here due to ripening times. i added black oxford tree from fedco last year. i hope it ripens in time. our growing season used to end by late sept. now it goes sometimes to early Nov. so i have a chance. i wanted a long keeping apple.
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Only had one of COP offspring, Alkmene. It was a dwarf tree, on G11. It died a couple years ago, but it did fruit pretty well considering it was such a small tree. Flavor from what I can remember was pretty complex, aromatic, more sweet than tart. Fruit was small, maybe 2-3" in diameter. Texture was firm, but not crisp.
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@Oepfeli
I would refer you to Scott’s thread - golden nugget is in his top 10 for being bulletproof but Gala, Rubinette, Suncrisp have also done well for him in his hot, higher disease pressure environment
and there are other threads on “intense apples”
Rubinette has fruited for me and I loved it (it does get CAR) so I will have 4 of the Cox x GD siblings (Rubinette, Freyburg, Gala, KOR) and like intense apples so will also grow Karmijn and Reinette Clochard; I have Suncrisp and Suntan but neither has yet fruited; there is a KOR sport called Captain Kidd (not on your list) that is supposed to be easier to grow as well that I am adding as well as Herefordshire Russet
unfortunately mine of very young and so it will be a an exciting pleasant journey
CAR is so easily controlled though. One of the least of our worries here.
Thank you all so much for sharing your tips and experiences!
Thanks @CRhode for detailing your experience with Ellison’s Orange. It sounds like an intriguing, but difficult apple with a narrow window in which it is great.
Thanks to @Solko for confirming KdS as a good choice and for the tip to choose local apples. As far as I know, there are two swiss apples that have Cox Orange as a parent: Rubinette and Swiss Orange. As I already said, Rubinette is great but capricious, so capricious that my commercial farmer friend is all but ready to give up on it…Swiss Orange never really established itself and is, as far as I know, unremarkable. This leaves your tip to start breeding myself. Honestly, I want to. I even have a list of all potential crosses I want to make. I am just apprehensive about using Cox as a parent and had hoped yhat there would be already advanced selections. Maybe KdS will fit the bill, although I understand it is triploid and therefore not ideal breeding stock.
Thanks @oscar for the tip about Laxton’s Favourite. Where did you buy this apple, it seems to be quite rare…and yes to the Ananasrenette! It is not Cox-style for me, but definitely very aromatic…
Thanks @jcf for affirming KdS as a good choice and for the tip with Alkmene and Elstar. Elstar will be difficult here, but it may be worth it to seek out Alkmene for a tasting…Several sources affirm it as quite healthy, if not very vigorous. One disadvantage according to the same sources seems to be early flowering, which leads to a susceptibility to frost…Since you grew both Alkmene and KdS: Which flowers later?
Thanks @jrd51 for the tip with Jupiter, not an apple that was on my radar at all. This seems to be a full sibling of Kidds Orange (cox x red delicious). Kidds is not a bad apple but I would much prefer it without the flowery red delicious touch. Can you please tell me more about Jupiter’s taste?
Thanks @DragonflyLane for the tip with the Mendocino cox. I am in Europe (Swiss) and this sport is definitely not available here. Don’t let yourself be discouraged by my description of Rubinette and Kidds orange! As marknmt writes: health varies very much with location. Concerning the taste of Kidds: i seem to be frequently misunderstood on this (may be the way i wrote it) Kidds is s great apple. It just has an influence of the flowery/ perfumey Red Delicious taste, which I could do without. But if you liked RD, that will probably not be a problem for you!
@Plisa, thanks for mentioning Opal. While Opal is a good apple, I feel it has no Cox flavour. Additionally, I had access to a small commercial Opal plantage this summer and the health of the foliage was very disappointing. No scab but full of mildew…summer 2024 was very wet here, a real test year for plant health. Under a full organic spray program the Opal was full of mildew, while other varieties looked much happier.
@Quill thanks for mentioning Holstein/ Holsteiner cox and Goldrush. According to the Deutsche-genbank-obst.de Holstein is very susceptible to scab and mildew. Their ratings seem to overlap quite well with how it is for me on other apples so I am sceptical if it would he healthy here…concerning the Goldrush: yes I considered it, but haven’t yet taken the leap because of its late ripening. Since you too affirm KdS as a good choice, I am considering it…
Thanks @subdood_ky_z6b for your input concerning Alkmene. I hoped you would chime in, I remember you wrote fondly about the Alkmene some years back. Why did it die?
Thanks @rubus_chief rubus_chief for mentioning Scotts thread. I have already read it, but it is always interesting. Since I am specifically looking for varieties with Cox flavour and good plant health I wanted my own thread, since this is more specific. I look forward to hearing about your experiences with the intense apples you planted!
Thanks everyone! Seems like Karmjin de Sonnaville is very well liked as an intense Cox-like apple with Alkmene as a runner-up in the more balanced category.
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I got it from the UK pre brexit.
We’re both in the EU so we could trade some scions if you want. Or i could send you some if you have nothing to trade.
Laxtons fortune is most cox like from my earlier apples. But like all earlier apples, it doesn’t hold up against the later ripening ones.
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I couldn’t provide a better description than here:
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Hallo,
I think it died because of some kind of rot problem with the rootstock. I also think it had some kind of wood boring insect problem that damaged the rootstock. But, I’ve had several apple trees that succumbed to such a demise. My other fruit trees don’t have that insect issue.
I liked what little fruit I had off meine kleine Alkmene, they had a unique flavor.
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I havent tried a Jupiter yet but in my travels and own orchard it seems that the Cox Flavor uniqueness is most well expressed in crosses with varieties that dont have much in the way of intense flavors.
I think some of the best results have been achieved with Golden Delicious in the lineage. Red Delicious has a pretty strong flavor, not a bad one, but enough to provide some masking of the Cox.
I do grow Kidds Orange and its important enough to have made it into the u pick line up and its a good apple. Always crunchy, hangs well on the tree, flavor is similar to but less than a Gala. Tends to russet somewhat and not develop much color.
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I take your point but bottom line you’re making an educated guess. It’d be better to wrestle up a few more people who have tasted Jupiter. I know I bought it based on recommendations. Of course, those are now lost to history.
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Thanks for the offer, I’ll pm you.
Thanks subdood, it does sound nice. And dying due to boring insects, is not the fault of the Alkmene!
I printed this out a while ago, so it took some digging to find the original- a newsletter from the garden at UC Santa Cruz. The guy who runs their orchard, Orin Martin, is very knowledgeable (and entertaining), and a good source of fruit wisdom. He has some great videos on their website and a very good book, “Fruit Trees for Every Garden.”
Anyhow, his summary of Cox offspring starts on p5 of this newsletter. I hope it is helpful.
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