Hello Everyone,
I am in my third year growing my backyard orchard, and my plum trees have finally started blooming. I have read so much about the dreaded Plum Cuculio, but I don’t think I have had it in my garden… yet.
I would like to add Surround to my sprays, but am having a hard time sourcing it for purchase in Ontario (Canada). Does anyone on the forum have a lead on where to get the 25# bag without selling my soul to courier companies?
Thanks,
Rylan
Hi! Any luck finding canadian sources???
Surround is just kaolin clay. I bought some from Arbico organics in Arizona a while back. If you have craft stores near you they probably sell kaolin clay. It’s used in pottery, I think. D
Although they are made of the same material but regular kaolin clay and Surround are different grades.
Surround is made into a wettable powder grade that can be dissolved in water and spray without clogging a sprayer. I think regular kaolin clay will cause clogging.
Thanks @Pokeweed for your suggestion. As @mamuang is suggesting, I don’t think just any kaolin clay will do. But if I can’t find Surround, I might try reg kaolin clay and find out for myself. I was also thinking of using neem oil as an alternative… I think someone told me Surround is only legal for commercial growers in Canada… I just don’t understand it.
If you need to use regular kaolin clay, you nay want to pour the mix through fine strainer. My new sprayer came with a plastic strainer with tiny holes. It really helps prevent larger particles to go through.
I am personally won’t use regular kaolin clay. Neem does not work here but you are in a colder zone. Pests they may not be as abundant or viciuos
Well… PC is very abundant… It took all my plums last year and the year before. Some plums had up to 5 cuts/scars. So neem oil didn’t work for you and PC ? Thanks for sharing your experience.
Sadly i will have to use one of my garden center contacts to order this.
There is a place, i think its called bartlett, that will sell the stuff but ive had no luck communicating with them.
Same story as everyone else. First year it looked like I would get a harvest from my plums but everything got hammered by crescent shaped bites. I found this link: https://canada.desertcart.com/products/16019507-insecticide-organic-surround-wp-25-pound-bag
It says they are out of stock but they will import to Canada. Putting it in the plan for next year.
Does anyone have any updates on Canadian sources to purchase Surround WP?
I live in BC and the regulations regarding pesticide use are listed online here:
The above government information source states:
Certification is not required for:
The pesticides exempted under schedule 2 are listed here:
https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/604_2004#Schedule2
The exclusions contained in schedule 2, lists |25|kaolin (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL)| as exempt.
`
Schedule 2
[en. B.C. Reg. 234/2015, s. 42; am. B.C. Reg. 264/2022, App., s. 16.]
Excluded Pesticides
| 1 | acetic acid (DOMESTIC) |
|---|---|
| 2 | adjuvants (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 3 | animal repellents (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) except thiram |
| 4 | anti-fouling paints (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 5 | antisapstain wood preservatives used on private, industrial land owned by the company or person responsible for applying the preservatives (COMMERCIAL) |
| 6 | asphalt solids used as pruning paints (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 7 | bactericides used in petroleum products (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 8 | boron compounds (DOMESTIC) |
| 9 | boron compounds formulated with up to 5% copper for insect control and wood preservation (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 10 | capsaicin (DOMESTIC, COMMERCIAL and RESTRICTED) |
| 11 | cleansers (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 12 | corn cellulose (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 13 | corn gluten (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 14 | deodorizers (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 15 | d-phenothrin (DOMESTIC) |
| 16 | d-trans-allethrin, also referred to as d-cis, trans allethrin (DOMESTIC) |
| 17 | fatty acids (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 18 | ferric phosphate (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 19 | ferrous sulphate (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 20 | formic acid (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 21 | hard surface disinfectants (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 22 | insect repellents (DOMESTIC) |
| 23 | insect semiochemicals, including pheromones, kairomones, attractants and repellents (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| 24 | insecticides sold and used in tamper-resistant bait stations (DOMESTIC) |
| 25 | kaolin (DOMESTIC and COMMERCIAL) |
| ` |
So why is it so hard to find a local source for a natural organic product like Surround WP?
The reason why you can’t buy Surround in Ontario is simply because the company doesn’t sell it in a small enough bag to be legal for domestic sales. In order for a homeowner to buy a pesticide, it needs to a) be on the list of approved domestic chemicals and b) be less than either 1L for liquids or 1kg for powder. While kaolin clay is on the approved list, the company only sells it in 25lbs bags or larger, and there are no other companies that sell kaolin clay for pesticide use, which means the typical consumer can’t buy it. For commercial growers it’s completely legal to buy it in any form factor you want and it’s pretty commonly used, but unfortunately you need a license. I would suggest contacting the company and request they sell 1kg bags of it, if enough people do that then maybe they’ll realize there’s a market for it. Or find some morally corrupt farmers…
@tbg9b, this thread gave me an idea for an alternative way that you might be able to source kaolin clay there in Canada:
What has the world come to that you have to track down morally corrupt farmers to garden organically… 
That’s a great price if you’re in the States, but the shipping from South Carolina to Canada is probably downright painful.
Is there any reason why it has to be kaolin clay in particular? Because pottery stores have some pretty cheap “normal” clay powder of the right particle size:
They sell kaolin too but it’s at most 60% the right size.