So many housing plats have the builder scraping the ground down to the all the soil to make it level. Then the homeowners fight for years to have some sort of trees and plants grow on their property. I had a horse farm behind my property that had been there for 40+ years. Once they sold to the developer he spent four whole years ( summer months) scraping the ground down to get the ground level in each “house phase” they opened up for houses to be built. The horse farm would tale their stall manure and spread it out into the side fields over all those years. When they would scrape the ground down you could smell the manure they had spread all those years. I have horses so I know that smell and it doesn’t bother me. I would how the homeowners feel when they smell that when they try and plant their trees and plants.
If you are replying to me:
I have always sprayed my trees every year. I think a healthy tree does better at growing and at producing good fruit.
I also fertilize my trees in the spring and through the summer until about July. I stop then so the trees can stop the growing part and settle in for the fall.
Some of these trees were purchased from Cummins- growing in one area. The others (Burnt Ridge, Albermarle Cider). So they came from different nurseries. Those last two nurseries I have bought trees from in my orchard and have had good results from them. Cummins trees are on the on G 202 rootstocks. I will take those trees out and replace them with something else. Yet, I have one other Cummins apple on a G202 and it is growing well and has been producing a lot of nice fruit.
Do you have to have the M26 trees permanently staked on that rootstock?
They need to be staked the first 3 years just like any apple tree grown on modern rootstock. However they will stand up on their own. They’re also better adapted to sandy gravely soil which is what my trees are planted in. The few trees that I have from Cummins are much smaller than the ones from Wafler. In their second year many are 9-11’ tall and feathered out. I didn’t get a chance to pick all the blossoms off so many of the trees beared a small fruit crop which will just go into one of my blends this fall. All of my trees are on a trellis wire but my hope is to eventually pull the wires in a few years. Also, in addition to your spraying do you use an herbicide under your trees like gramoxone or something similar? If there’s any grass or anything growing under your trees it will rob your tree of almost any and all of the fertilizer you put down. My neighbor has a 2 acre orchard planted 10x20’ with dabinette, porters perfection, and yarlington mill all on M26. The trees are on year 5 and he let them go biennial by not thinning and this year the trees are loaded. He also had a lot of fireblight whereas I didn’t which may been from my overzealous spraying of strep due to my fear of fireblight wiping out my orchard.
Nothing is sprayed under the trees that may inhibit their growth or vigor.
Maybe in the Midwest and very windy sites. It isn’t the first 3 years that are most challenging for anchorage, trees tend to tip over the year of the first heavy crop. I transplant bearing age fruit trees by the score- they grow in my nursery unstaked unless a tree happens to get wobbly, which is the exception and usually the result of a shallow soil spot or fricking pine voles. I do stake my bearing age trees when installing them at permanent sites, but only for a year or two. They are usually firmly plugged in after a year at a new site.
I believe 111 is less prone to tipping than M7, M7 may fruit before the roots are well enough established to hold a crop. Commercial growers sometimes stake trees automatically with metal conduit, which ends up being a PIA when pruning. One slip and you can dull your saw blade. They usually leave the conduit and trees grow into it. It’s tough to remove after a few years of growing with the trees.
However, when we get near hurricane winds every few years, there will always be a few trees blown over in all the orchards I manage, but these are usually mature trees.
I’ve got some G202 grafted around spring 2019…that appear to have spurs and fruit buds for 2024…
not the precocious plant I had expected. Thin caliper and little or no side branching…looks like ‘pole apples’…
But, I do think they could be planted 3 feet apart successfully, most likely. If the crop is light, they might not need staking, I’m hoping. Don’t know yet. They are a tough root though.
The herbicide helps keep the ground under your tree bare of weeds and grasses that rob your tree from nutrients.
I would think the spray would affect the roots and so damage to the fruiting aspect of the tree.That’s why I do not use it around my trees. I thought about using the coco mats around the trees to stop the weeds and grass growth.
The spray that I use is called paraquat. It kills all the vegetation on the surface and has no affect on the tree. A mat would probably work too. You can use roundup but you have to be very careful and it isn’t recommended because it can cause harm to the tree and cause deformed fruit. When I started using herbicide in combination with the fertilizer my trees growth doubled in size in no time. All these things add up
Glyphosate needs to contact chlorophyll that is actively sending carbs to roots of a plant to harm plants. Young trees can be damaged by it when their trunks are still green but older apple trees will not be affected by trunk exposure.
Even when you are spraying weeds directly that are not sending nutrients to the roots they may not die- some need to be sprayed in late summer. However, for most weeds around here that compete with apples an early spring spray can give the apple tree a big boost in early growth and most commercial growers use glyphosate and other herbicides to keep strips barren of competing growth- at least into early summer. This increases their yields more than enough to justify the costs, apparently.
I don’t use herbicides myself, but I’m sure many of the orchards I manage are exposed to “weed and feed” formulas by landscape crews creating weed free lawns. As long as they are careful, that shouldn’t be a problem for the trees.
The youngest Wafler son has a YouTube channel. I found it interesting seeing some of the operations of the farm. “Apple Boy WNY”
Jacob Wafler is a great guy. The company is in good hands with him now with the retirement of Bill Pitts who was great to deal with too. They primarily bud all of their trees in the summer as they get them to grow so much bigger than you would if they were grafted. They had started using G969 and it was having trouble with weak unions on some of the varietals but mainly golden Russet. Over 90% of the trees were lost due to wind damage. It sucked, but grafted them for me instead, and then offered me first shot on other trees that were short from the order on G935, which they are switching to as their free standing Geneva option. They’re great people to do business with and a really impressive facility. My trees were 1/3 of the price as any other nursery, twice the size and fully feathered and 100% guaranteed. They’re the best.
I took one of the older M111 trees out that was not producing apples. It has been in the ground since 2014. Here is what the roots look like.
I sprayed glyphosate the year that the understory of my trees was the clearest. I felt I was careful on the direction and manner in which I sprayed, but my gala leaves got terribly disfigured. That gave me pause and I returned to weedeating.
I had used a more potent spray along our fenceline (don’t remember ingredients) but it stated over and over not to get anywhere near where roots could absorb the spray. Even the guy who helped me pick it out reminded me of the same. Sure enough I killed a tiny tree (not in the orchard) just by root contact but I did not spray around the actual trunk or leaves at all.
I had spent hours and hours weedeating along our several acre parcel fenceline at least weekly but I’m just not up to that anymore. Still I don’t like the idea of what this is doing to the land. It killed weeds in the driveway and along the fence just shy of one growing year. No way I would get anywhere close to the fruit trees. I did gown up like a hazmat guy.
I removed a cherry tree one year by digging as much as I could and then hooking a chain to the landcruiser. It took three strong pulls and still did not get all the roots. They ran for more than a yard from the center in all directions and it had only been in the ground three or four years.
For an apple MM111 with that many years on it that looks like a really weak root growth. Almost what you would get with a bare root tree.
Does anything about the hole you dug, the soil type, or the environment stand out that would give you an idea why it did not thrive? How tall was the tree?
BTW I have 2 MM111 trees not producing after many years but I’m hopeful next year will be the year. I’m thinning a lot of limbs to open it up more as recommended by @alan and others. Perhaps a matter of too much vegetative growth and insufficient inner light penetration although I did put a fair amount of effort into spreading branch angles. I’m guessing the root structure is pretty sound though.
I’m sorry you had to let that tree go after all the time and effort you put into it.
Two words wick-stick. Or does the hyphen make that one word?
I’d say it is you summer pruning the central leader. The tree is basically prioritizing to grow out of reach of giant deer. Probably very frustrated.
Fruit buds are formed in the summer of the previous year. You pruning the leader at this time will stimulate vegetative growth at the expense of forming fruit buds
Hormonal response to pruning is less when done in the dormant season
I have modified the central leader to maybe three branches including the central leader which I maintain at the same height. Since doing that the tree has maintained a fairly consistent height. I do some height pruning but not like before. The tree is already 15-20 feet which is the tallest I would like.
I am focusing more on thinning cuts to open up the interior and try to have three whorls of scaffolds with good spacing. I can’t change the pruning I did in the past but I can move forward with a better plan for the future.
I think some late summer pruning (like August) is not resulting in much regrowth because the trees resources are pretty tapped out. Compare this to when I did only winter pruning and got extensive vegetative regrowth with no buds. Just long leggy growth. That’s not what I want.