Hello! I live in SE Pennsylvania and I want to grow apples and other fruits on trees that are maintained at 6’ and planted in groupings of 3 to a hole. The apple trees that I am considering are on M-111 or G890 rootstock. How difficult will it be to keep these trees at 6’? I understand that I will need to do summer and winter pruning, but I don’t want to be battling trees that want to grow into giants. What has your experience been like with these rootstocks? I’d love to see pics of your trees, too!
I hear folks claim they manage M111 to a 10-14 foot height. In your area I think G.214, B9/10 or M7/26 would be closer to what you want. Things are a bit different here. The heat tends to dwarf more on all rootstocks.
Take scion vigor into account too though. Dwarf rootstock and low vigor scions can equal runts.
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I don’t think three in a hole is a good idea in the East. I know Dave Wilson recommends it but there in an area that has little Summer rainfall and low humidity.
As far as rootstocks if your wanting to stay at a six feet height I don’t think M111 is a good choice. The vigor is pretty high. G890 is also on the high vigor side but will work with some low vigor scion combinations. For example, I have Goldrush on G890 trained to a tall spindle system. I could keep it at six foot if I wanted to. But Goldrush doesn’t have high vigor and it is very, very precocious. I keep enough apples on the tree that it lowers the vigor.
I would take a look at this tree spacing calculator to get a better idea of how different variables interact when your planting trees.
http://fruitadvisor.info/tfruit/clements/appletreespacing.htm
Some of the new Geneva rootstocks are not covered in the calculator but you can use this chart to convert new sizes to old sizes. For example G890 is equivalent in size to M7.
Also if you’re just starting out I would look at this post (and the rest of the thread) it gives you an overview of picking the right trees.
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I think it depends on what you want in a fruit tree. IMO. M111 is the most versatile and forgiving rootstock for me here in SW Ohio. It takes wet and dry conditions better than the other rootstocks I have used- M7, G202, G11, The other rootstock you mentioned , G890, I have just put two of them in the ground so I have no feedback about how the G890 actually is.
My G202, G11 have been a basic disappointment as to how they grow and fruit production. I put two of G202, and G11. I took one of each out because they were horrible and scrawny looking. Hardly any fruit on them for 8 years. So I took them out.
I would recommend A EMLA9/M111 rootstock. It keeps the tree smaller naturally and you do not have to constantly have to prune the trees. Just some pruning to get off the suckers or if the tree itself gets more crowded with branches. I wish I had all my apple trees in the EMLA 9/M111 rootstocks. I get a lot of fruit off these trees as well. No problem with drought or wet conditions, especially in the spring with wetness. We have had two horrible drought conditions ( roughly 40 days or more without rain) since I put the ELMA 9/M111 tress in. I have had zero problems with them dying out.
I did lose other apple tress that were on NON M111 rootstocks dies during the drought conditions this last year. Even with me trying to water them they still died.
Do you know what apple varieties you want to put in your orchard?
Doing the three trees to a hole requires a few concessions.
It is doable. I have just put two apple trees in one hole this last year. I am not sure how that will go but I thought I would try it. Both of the second trees I planted in those holes were labeled “dwarf” so it could be any number of rootstock choices. The nursery did not know exactly what rootstock each were but have me a few ideas as to what they could be. Basically no help. I am just doing this as an experiment. To see if it even works.
Planting multiple trees in one hole
Finally, planting **three or four fruit trees in one hole is another example of high density fruit tree culture. (see image below).**This allows you to have fruit throughout the season without surrendering the whole garden to fruit trees. Consider our Classic bundle offer. You can purchase six unique apple trees for the price of five, providing a myriad diversity of color and flavors, but you only sacrifice an area necessary for two trees. The method is straightforward: Plant the trees approximately 18” apart, leaning slightly outward with the inside limbs pruned away. Then, in the summer months to control the size of the trees, we recommend heading back some of the new growth. This will reduce the overall height of the trees.
Some apple trees fruit at the tips of their branches and are termed “tip–bearers” or “partial tip–bearers.” These apple trees produce all or almost all of their fruit on the branch tips. Do not head back severely when pruning, as you will remove your crop. Tip-bearers are less productive than spur type trees. When growing tip-bearers as highly trained forms (i.e., espalier, fan, cordon), these should be summer pruned in the same way as all cultivars.
Example of planting three trees in one hole.
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Why? There may be better way to achieve your goals. Personally I wouldn’t use MM.111 for a 6’ tree – I’d spend my whole life pruning. MM.111 doesn’t want to be a giant, but it seems much more content at ~12’. And rather than 3 to a hole, I’d just graft 3 different varieties to one rootstock.
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My single M111 root stock on the Gala is only 6’ feet tall. It has multiple branches (11 - 12 branches). I want it to be 10’ - 15’ tall. I’m trimming the tip in winter, hoping it will promote growth next year.
How old? Sounds like your tree may be dividing its resources. Assuming that it’s a young tree, you may need to head the central leader at ~4’ and reduce branches to 3-4, creating some serious scaffolds.