M111 Rootstocks

General Fruit Growing
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Hello, Im currently looking at Planting a few more apple tree’s. I have a fuji, honeycrisp and an old apple tree that could be anything (sweet and tart but good)

Im in Zone 4/5 in Wisconsin, I have a 22 acre homestead 50% on a south facing 10% slope, the other half in a creek valley. 5 acres of this is Oshtemo loam and this is where i plan on putting trees and the garden. The Oshtemo soil profile is around 32" thick and then red clay. It does vary a little but when i dug in waterlines with an excavator I examined the profile as good as i could.

Im looking at Apple trees with M111 rootstock because of the heavier subsoil profile and being a self supporting tree. (Its an open area and the winds can be brutal) i have read that M111 isnt precocious and my time to fruiting would be longer. Though with site, climate, and scion variables I struggled to find a idea of how long from Graft to first crop.

So my main questions are
Am i overthinking the red clay subsoil?

Are there Other rootstocks anyone would reccomend that are self supporting? (Im open to Bud 118 but was concerned with the clay)

How long have your M111 taken to fruit?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to the feedback!

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You could use M111 as your roots and then a dwarfing precocious variety as an interstem in between your rootstock and cultivated variety. That might give you the best of both worlds

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M111 is a good rootstock. But, you could die before you ever see fruit on it.

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I do not think the depth of clay is much of an issue. None of the apples have deep roots. Some just have better root masses. If you have high winds, I would still stab it on a strong post no matter if it was said to be “free standing”.Look at all the folks having issues with allegedly sturdy, free standing B-118. Get you a long fence post. Place it in a 2 foot hole. Drive it down with a pole hammer 2 foot. Pack in the hole.

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Ive heard of it but now going to do more serious research on it. Have you personally had luck with this?

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Really that bad? I saw a thread where someone waited 12years.
How many years have you beed waiting/ did you wait?

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Ill plan on it then, sounds like good cheap insurance.
Thank you!

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It use to be M111 was THE rootstock. And it’s good reliable stuff. Just not like all the super rootstocks of small stature that go mostly into the commercial trade. It is still a good, affordable home tree though.

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No, but i need all the vigor i can get down here in Texas. Steven edholm of the youtube channel skillcult has videos on it. Im interested to try it

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10 years. Fruit quantity was good. Fruit quality, squirrels didn’t share that knowledge. They have been cut down. Very drought tolerant.

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11

I have yet to have planted a tree on M111 that didnt start bearing fruit by age 4. I can’t speak to all climates, maybe in colder zones with shorter growing seasons it takes longer. As was stated if you have 30" + of good soil I would not worry about the root stock needing to deal with clay. Most apple tree roots are shallower than that.

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12

I use M111 as my main rootstock in my nursery and I’ve certainly never waited 10 years for any apple to bear fruit, even N. Spy can be coaxed after 6 years if you tie down secondary wood. In my nursery, several varieties routinely begin bearing on the second year after planting bare root whips without being pruned or trained at all.

Excessive pruning can delay bearing, so the trick with many varieties is to only prune “bad wood” until tree begins to bear and then to gradually cut temporary branches for its permanent structure.

Just look for varieties with at least medium precocity.

Clay subsoil is common and quite natural. It could help your trees flourish through drought, but might also provide them with more water than is best for highest flavored fruit. As long as there is good drainage in at least the top foot or so trees should grow very well.

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That is why I avoid making trees look like 10 foot bamboo poles. I prefer just keeping a nice uncrowded branch angle structure.

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Six to 10 years, I’ve had one fruit sooner, and one not yet after 10th leaf. Rest fell in the middle of 6 to 10.

And I may not have 10 more years…

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When you mention “tie down secondary wood” I’m picturing a modified center tree and training the 2nd level branches towards horizontal?

I will have to look into the scions precocity. Thats something i havent read or heard talked about much except for north spy taking a long time.

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Yes, and with an excessive number of scaffold branches at first, the temp branches can function as anchors to tape secondary shoots to. Just don’t let the temps crowd the perms too much, at least after a couple seasons growth.

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If only you were harvesting more apples. One a day might keep you going past 100.

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Im 32, and so to me 6 years is a decent timeline. I might look at looking at the interstem techniques suggested for one or maybe two trees. My little one is 15months and we may have a few more so im trying to plan ahead. Hopefully you get the next 10 years and then some!
Thank you!!!

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That is brilliant!! I havent seen any details about leaving the undersirable branches as training tie downs. Its been boards for spreading or external weights. Thats an awesome technique, using the extra branches the tree already provided!!
Thank you!!

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Personally didn’t have much luck with M-111, although I live in a very different area, so that means squat.

Check with the county extension agent. There’s about every kind of permutation of rootstock you can imagine just with the Geneva series.

I wouldn’t get too focused on having a vigorous rootstock just because you have some acreage, unless it’s a landscaping issue. If you need a vigorous tree there’s Antonovka.

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