Zero I think. (But, I’m talking about containerized trees, not those in the ground.)
@BlueBerry Interesting. I had temps down to -5F this winter and my containerized G969s are all fine. Perhaps 890s are a little more sensitive.
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Can’t say, I have no 969’s.
B-10 and Antonovka are a couple roots I’ve had little trouble with. M-111 the most when grown in pots.
Seems most of the Geneva roots aren’t very tolerant of dry spells without irrigation. Perhaps G202 I’ve done the best with in that regard. (For if I lose the graft, usually the G202 pushes sprouts from below – something 890 seldom does.
I’ve trialed many rootstocks across ~20 years, some under just a few trees and others under larger numbers. I’m in the high desert of northern Nevada, so winters are cold(ish) and summers are hot during the day, and relatively cool at night. Humidity is always low, and we don’t get much precipitation (shadowed out by the Sierra directly to the west), so I irrigate.
The first major grafting I did was to G16 and G30 roots. I didn’t keep good notes back then, so I don’t have numbers grafted to each, but given the reported vigor of G16 vs G30, most the 16s failed within the first six or seven years. I’m fairly certain I grafted disease free scions from the Geneva repository, but I also graft new varieties to many of my trees over time, so it’s entirely possible I grafted infected wood above the original variety. I don’t know if this eventually works it’s way down to the rootstock, but the bottom line is that G16 is not a good choice in my environment. G30 has performed better, but I’ve also lost a number of those trees. Those that remain are healthy and vigorous.
I ordered 25 G890 roots and five G969 roots in 2017 (Cummins, I think) and ended up with more than 50 of the 890s. Somebody was clearing stock or couldn’t count, it seems. Anyway, 890 has performed better than 969 thus far, as the latter seem more prone to sunburn, a real issue in these parts. I’ve got around 30 trees on 890, and most will deliver their first good crops this year—the previous three years saw late frosts that removed 80-95% of my fruit, otherwise I expect many of these trees would have fruited by ‘21 at the latest. The 969 trees are all smaller, three have sunburn injuries, which doesn’t help vigor, and one died two or three years ago. They, too, will deliver crops this year, but far fewer apples.
Although we get high wind events here preceding winter storms and in thunderstorms, I haven’t had any trees break off in in the wind. My orchard is protected enough that the trees are rarely exposed to the worst gusts. I’ve staked most of these trees this year due to the fruit load, but should be able to remove that support in a couple more years as trunks and central leaders size up enough to carry such loads without leaning, although it will probably take the 969 trees a couple years beyond that before they’ll be sturdy enough to stand straight without support. The G890 in particular grows a pretty tree.
I also have trees on B118, M26, M106, and M111. I don’t like B118. True to reputation, many of my B118 trees have been slow to develop good anchorage in spite of vigorous top growth, so even trees in ground for more than a decade still require support else they’d topple in a strong wind when fully loaded with fruit. The graft union on many of these trees is also ugly, with the scion 50% or more larger than the stock…makes me think it will snap at some point, though none have up to now, so hopefully it’s just cosmetic.
M26 shows low vigor in my lean soil, a rocky clay loam with a tough, but not completely impermeable hardpan at 12-16”. I won’t use it again.
M106 is my favorite stock so far. It’s vigorous enough, precocious, and doesn’t sucker nearly as badly as M111, the recommended stock for this area (for good reason, since it’s drought tolerant and anchors well right away). My three issues with M111 are the previously mentioned suckering issue, it’s too vigorous for my tight planting scheme (8-9’ spacing, with similar spacing between rows), and it takes forever to start bearing here, 7+ years vs 3-4 for M106.
Time will tell in G890 proves as durable, productive, and appropriately vigorous as M106, but it’s a solid 2nd best thus far, and I’d happily add more trees on it if my wife would let me grow the orchard. 
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@blueberrythrill What kind of trellis support do you suggest for heavily loaded G11 to prevent previous problems you had?
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We are making a few changes as we plant new trees.
Moved the posts closer together. Now around 35 feet. 4 trellis wires or 5 wires on the 12 foot posts.
Replaced the Gripples with more traditional ratchet wire tightener at the end of the row so we can pull the wires much tighter. We noticed that our Gripples loosened over time.
Still plan to use the same clips to attach the trees to the wire. No conduit at each tree.
Here are the clips:
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I’ve never even thought about the difference in ease of grafting particular rootstocks, but I assume that as with trees on any given rootstock, the more the vigor in the tree the more the vigor of the grafts. Often the apple grafts that don’t take start off growing very slowly.
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So they say, but I’ve still not had my first apple from a G.30 rootstock.
Though I’ve grafted over a dozen varieties in the past 6 years to it.
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A year old but I just came across it recently - Some interesting stuff being looked at in regards to winter hardiness, but a little strange they didn’t include good control comparisons in the trial - no B118 or M111 for comparison:
https://blogs.cornell.edu/enychp/tree-fruit/apples/tree-fruit-apple-cold-hardiness-research-update/
I just posted my deliberations… leaning towards B118, but still considering m111 or G210
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I was lucky enough to have sugarwood fruit in its 3rd year on that stock. Thats the only tree I have on it so not a huge sample. Seems like maybe its variable in different locations. 6a, upper hudson valley ny; deep loamy sand here.
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Ugh! KdS on G41. It sure was a pretty bloom this spring. Honestly, I forgot all about the fact that I was supposed to stake it. The graft wasn’t perfect, but it didn’t ever appear to have any problems. We had a sudden few big wind gust this past weekend and found this on my afternoon rounds. I have never seen a tree snap clean like that. Like an asparagus spear.
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I have had only one tree on G41, from Cummins: Edelborsdorfer. In its eighth leaf since the graft & sixth leaf in my yard, with a light load of debut crop, two gusts at the van of a thunderstorm from due south broke it away clean as a whistle. Never happened before or since. (The photo above - sorry cis4elk - looks much like it.) I forget how many I had on Gen30 or Bud118 at the time, and one on EMLA26. All weathered the storm without damage.
(Since I have no interest in growing Gala, on Gen30 or anything else, it is not a problem.)
Now I am trying two on Gen890: Shackleford & Kandil Sinap. So far they are doing fine.
I am stooling Bud118 & hope to do the same with Gen30, both of which have done fine without staking for SW winds. All the houses & mature trees blunt the worst of those winds.
Per HighandDry’s recommendation I will give MM106 a go.
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How tall have your M106 gotten?
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I keep my trees at 8’, so I can’t really give you an ultimate height in my orchard. As one might expect, some varieties show greater vigor on M106 than others, but that’s more likely to be due to the native vigor of the variety than it is compatibility with M106. I don’t recall if there are varieties that aren’t suggested with 106 as I’ve seen for some varieties on several of the newer rootstocks.
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Most of my apple trees are on M111 but i had not talked with anyone that used M106. I know they are similar from what I had been reading. I was not sure of any issues once the M106 got established.
The Geneva rootstocks I had tried were pretty much a flop. I have two G890 that I am testing out, only because that was the only rootstock available for the apple variety I wanted.
Time will tell. I just planted them this spring and one last fall.
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I learned the hard way that M106 is prone to collar rot in certain soils.
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I bought 10 each of G.890 and G.210 rootstocks this year, only 4 grafts seem to have been successful out of 20. I’ve usually had a good success rate w/ grafting on M111 and M7 in previous years. I did buy these rootstocks pretty late in the winter so maybe they were the bottom of the barrel, but they seemed fine and had large root systems.
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G969 has grown poorly in my orchards, producing a small “splindly” tree. Have a couple nice trees on G30 and G202 Have trees on M7, M111, B118, Antonoka but now am only grafting to M106. It’s giving me a nice free standing,manageable tree with little disease problems. Just my experience in my area of south central Pa.
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Some brief, informal notes on durability and graftability/regraftability of some of the Geneva rootstocks (based on my very limited experience in Kentucky, 6b):
G.202: High mortality in about a dozen specimens this year. Several potted specimens died after the first grafting. And like a lot of lower vigor stocks, it will not tolerate regrafting in first year. I lost many of my first grafts this year.[*] And none of the young G.202s I regrafted lived; I mean, the entire stock died, even in cases in which the regraft callused and tried to take. Not an entirely surprising outcome, but worth noting perhaps. My only surviving 2024 G.202 is in a pot and I think it had maybe one root when I got it. Still, was able to successfully graft it with a modified cleft.
An established G.202 planted last year bark grafted with ease this season, and a King David on G.202, grafted last year, has grown beautifully. Might well be a good stock long-term, but seems as though it might be a bit fragile in the nursery.
G.969: Have several of these from last season; all survived and grafted with ease, mostly clefts. All have grown well so far. This year regrafted three of my newly planted ones. All regrafts took and are now growing well. Also, a Liberty graft on a new G.969 was accidentally destroyed last season, and I regrafted it that July; it also took and is now growing well, with most of its scaffolds now established. Don’t know what long-term performance will be, but G.969 looks promising out of the gate here. At the very least, it seems durable. [Edit 6/30: Of the seven or so apple rootstocks I’ve worked with so far, this seems the most resilient and easiest to get grafted and growing.]
Speaking of g.969 and durability: Early this season, I dug up (and none too gently!) a damaged g.969 that I planted in the ground last spring. Only a nub of trunk remained and I didn’t get that many roots when I pulled it. I dropped it in a gallon pot, gave it some fert and it produced a nice new trunk. I t-budded it for fun earlier this month—and it took!
G.890: New to me this year. Of ten, all seem to be alive, but it did not regraft well. [Edit 6/30: Several of them are now croaking. A total bust.] Plants tend to compartmentalize off the (re)grafted area. Even specimens that took (including two clefts that took the first time) have extensive dead tissue adjacent to graft. If these succeed, the grafts will take extra time to heal for this reason. G.890 is probably better grown out a year before grafting (can be said of all rootsocks, really) or maybe bench grafted while dormant. The fact that most of the G.890s I received had very poor root development—some had only a couple of weedy little roots on receipt—probably didn’t help. Since this is supposed to be the most vigorous of the Genevas, I was a little surprised, but maybe it’s a bit harder to propagate than some.
Anyway, hardly extensive experience or definitive data. Still, with under-tested things like these rootstocks, I realize that any data can be potentially helpful to other growers—so there’s my (limited) experience on the info pile.
[*]NOTE: For some stupid reason, I abandoned what worked well the past two seasons and performed many saddle grafts on non-dormant stocks. Some of the literature advises against this—and for good reason: the plant, when awake and actively managing resources, will often decide that a peaked wound at its apex is not worth healing and will abandon the tissue, hence no living tissue to callus to. The only saddle grafts that took this year were on a couple of G.890s that were late in waking up, and so were still dormant when grafted. My foolish experimentation was a flop but I learned something (the hard way)—and now maybe somebody else will learn something (the easy way).
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I have Shackleford and Kandil Sinap on G890. This is sandy soil & I must watch that both get extra irrigation since planting out two years ago. The roots on G890 seem to be slower to grow than has been my experience with G16, 30, 41, 202. I added a dose of mycorrhizal inoculant a month after planting. The growth of Kandil Sinap doubled its pace, with leaves widening almost twice what they had been in two previous years.
Shackleford, on the other hand, had a small root when transplanted. There was no green growth last year while it built a root system. This year there are already several inches of twig growth.
It appears G890 will do well enough as it matures while I top-dress & take care it need not compete with turf or weeds & do a more deliberate job of mulching beyond the drip line. (These are habits I must build anyway.) I wonder if it might do better in heavier soils in its formative years.
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