Mulberry question: Coldest climate 'Pakistan', 'King White Shahtoot', or 'Taiwan Long Mulberry' is being grown?

[Livinginawe]

I have been aware that some sources of information on Morus macroura cultivars (‘Pakistan’, ‘King White Shahtoot’, and the National Germplasm Repository at Davis, accession ‘DMOR 9’) list the species as being cold hardy down to -10 degrees F. (zone 6). So far in my own experience, and the experience of many others, I have not known this plant to survive anything close to these temperatures.
So I am asking if anyone has successfully grown this plant in USDA plant hardiness zone 6 (or even 7), please post a response. The coldest climate I am aware of Morus macroura growing is zone 8. I suspect it can survive colder “fully dormant” temperatures, but what invariably happens is that at the first hint of spring it awakens from dormancy and then is struck by a freeze, causing dieback or even death.

[Carld]

I am in zone 9b for.portugal hardiness, sometimes i think its.more like zone 9a, they seem fine both pakistan and saharanupur that i have but i also bought a pakistani type from belgium this year which is named clone 10 which is supposed to be more.cold hardy than the traditional types. Maybe something for you to check

[Carld]

And comparing them.at this.moment, still winter time but with mild temperatures i can tell you pakistani and saharanpur are budding out quickly (as well as sangri la and boninensis, and as well as a new one i have from Belgium also named Portugal because it.came.from a portuguese collector - its supposed to be a macroura or hibrid), the clone 10 is more delayed on the budding, so it.must be.more cold hardy no doubt

[Carld]

This is the Portugal one fruits

[fruitnut]

This is the Portugal one fruits

That looks amazing. I bet it would do well in my greenhouse.

[Drew51]

I bet it would do well in my greenhouse.

I think it would too. You should try these larger types.
I’m experimenting with keeping them like figs. Here temps are more consistent, and everything 9 out of 10 years all break at the right time. I will protect from super cold temps.So I must grow in a container. I’m just playing around. Long term I probably won’t keep the less hardy types. Just to produce mulberries that big, I want to try so somebody offered me Pakistan wood, and it easily rooted. See if it survives in the garage this winter. So I didn’t put any money into it. I count on all of you to help me out when needed and of course vice versa.

[Bradybb]

I have a Pakistan near Seattle in zone 8 and there is die back at about 15F.Growing the thing in minus zero may be difficult.bb

[Drew51]

Seattle in zone 8 and there is die back at about 15F.

Cool, my garage stays no lower than 25F. That is good info. It appears we have different strains that might be hardier. Thanks Carld for the info.

[Blake]

Hi, Gerardi’s Dwarf is also a Marcoura and it will survive in zone 6 and seems less prone to dying back, although I lost one a few years ago (zone 6 KY), probably for the reason you stated:

“I suspect it can survive colder “fully dormant” temperatures, but what invariably happens is that at the first hint of spring it awakens from dormancy and then is struck by a freeze, causing dieback or even death.”

I think that is the major issue with Macroura in zone 6, especially Southeast USA with fluctuating winters (it’s been a real doozy of one this year!!!) However in milder winters in zone 6 they should do fine, but sustainability and long term longevity remains a big question with Macroura in fluctuating winter zones with intense cold. Experimental at best. However, there are so many excellent and fully hardy Rubra, Alba, Rubra/Alba crosses, better to just go with those unless you want to experiment.

[Carld]

Where are u located? Its his first year in ground, maybe next year i can send you a few cuttings, no problem

[Leif79]

I have a Pakistan from Just Fruits and Exotics planted last year and it already leafed out and got fried in zone 8 will see how bad it is later this spring.

[Livinginawe]

Gerardi’s Dwarf is also a Marcoura and it will survive in zone 6

I agree with you, Blake, that ‘Gerardi Dwarf’ will survive zone 6, but in my observations it has no macroura characteristics…I would be interested in the source of that statement. The National Germplasm Repository at Davis lists it incorrectly as a alba x nigra, but my guess is that it is rubra x alba hybrid.

You also hinted at a contention of mine…So many nurseries “push” the boundaries of zones that various fruit trees supposedly will survive in (I guess it helps to increase sales). But as you mentioned, a plant may survive an occasional mild winter in a specific zone, but in the long term will be struck down.

[Livinginawe]

I have a Pakistan near Seattle in zone 8 and there is die back at about 15F.

I totally agree with your statement, as that has been my experience for a mature ‘Pakistan’, with younger plants (less than three years old) experiencing dieback at much warmer temperatures (I’ve seen it at 22 degrees F). I was just surmising that perhaps Morus macroura can possibly adjust under the right conditions to colder temperatures (say, the temperatures drop slowly over several days or weeks, so that it has a chance to “harden” properly). I say that because Bryce has a ‘World’s Best’ that seems to be growing well in a zone 6b, while others are experiencing difficulty in even zone 8.

[Lucky_P]

AJ Bullard said that lowest temp recorded in Islamabad, where ‘Pakistan’ originated, was 28F. so… he recommended planting with graft union below grade in Z6…which I did… my Pakistan froze to the ground 3 yrs in a row, resprouting and growing 8-10 ft every year. never fruited for me…I dug it up and misplaced it before I got it to my Dad on the Z7/8 interface

[fruitnut]

Where are u located? Its his first year in ground, maybe next year i can send you a few cuttings, no problem

I’m in west Texas but grow in a greenhouse that never freezes. Temperatures are similar to the best areas of California. My nigra is covered in fruit. I’m planting Gerardi, Kokuso, and am trying to root World’s Best. I’ll be looking for cuttings next yr. Thank you for the offer.

[Livinginawe]

AJ Bullard said that lowest temp recorded in Islamabad, where ‘Pakistan’ originated, was 28F.

That makes a lot of sense…Still there are those that claim ‘Pakistan’ is cold hardy…Like Tricia, at GrowOrganic Peaceful Valley…Listen at 1:25 minutes into her video: “How to Grow Organic Mulberries From Bare Root” https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=96&v=YQAPUkcZ2E4&feature=emb_logo
She talks about the “bush form” of ‘Pakistan’ mulberry being cold tolerant down to zone 4!!! I only know of one form of ‘Pakistan’ mulberry…and it grows in a large bush-like shape…I haven’t heard of a tree form ‘Pakistan’.

[PermaAZ]

I tried 2 Pakistans on my 8A property. Even in tree tubes, they froze and died.

[Lucky_P]

I meant to say, in my previous post, that Dr. Bullard didn’t necessarily recommend ‘Pakistan’ for zone 6 - but that if you were gonna try it there, you’d better bury the graft union.

The ‘original’ “Pakistan”, IIRC correctly, was imported by Dr. Bullard & Mike McConkey, of Edible Landscaping… but I could be wrong.
I have no doubt that it would have assumed tree form if it had been winter-hardy enough to survive here.

The last year that I had it, we had a freak early frost in mid to late October… burned all the leaves off, but it re-leafed and flowered immediately… but those fruits had no prayer of ripening before actual winter arrived just a few weeks later. .

[chadspur]

People will say funny things to sell a tree…

[RobThomas]

I’ve been growing a Pakistan mulberry in my greenhouse for the last couple of years here in z7. Was considering planting it in the ground this year, but sounds like the better option is to just replant it in a larger pot and keep it in the greenhouse during winter.