Wait. Are you suggesting that if you take a piece of scion wood from a tree that was sprayed the previous season with pesticide, and you graft that scion to a rootstock and grow it organically for 4 years, you think it will somehow create a “poison tree” and fruit that is bad for you even though the new 4-year old tree or its fruit has never been sprayed but the little stick used to make it was-5 years ago? Could you provide some kind of evidence, or even scientific theory, to support that? I’m genuinely curious about your logic on this. Thank you.
So if we are going to go on about the relative danger of modern agriculture to its practitioners, let’s bring on some actual data. How about comparing the health histories of about 70,000 farmers and their spouses to the general population? Say for 20 years. These farmers who have spent their lives spraying crops all season long with mist blowers, more often than not, in open tractors using chemicals that used to be so much more toxic to human beings than more modern pesticides.
How long do they live and how healthy are they compared to other citizens in their states?
Lot’s healthier, much less cancer overall, and they live a lot longer.
Check the graph on the 4th page. It is astounding.
All agriculture is bad for the environment in the scale required to feed 9 billion people. In my opinion, the primary problem is not the agricultural methods so much as the extent of the human population. The irony is that the expansive human population is entirely the result of the continuing agricultural revolution, right up to the use of synthetic pesticides.
And farmers have been screwed from the time they became successful enough to support cities- don’t put all the blame on Monsanto.
I always wondered how much mercury is in fish fertilizer? As I heard that fish that test with too high of mercury levels for humans (often very big fish) are used for other purposes. They are not thrown out. So for now, I don’t use it. I have never really seen any good numbers on the subject. It may be fine? I don’t know?
This topic has again been flagged multiple times. We are looking into those concerns. This is a reminder to please be respecttful of each other regardless of the strong feelings that exist concerning this post.
The topic is being flagged because there is no mechanism for flagging a particular troll
It seems to me that Kevin,thecityman,was honestly shocked by your comments and wasn’t trying to be rude or a bully.
We all want as much factual information possible and he was inquiring about yours.bb
#1 - Welcome to the happy plant forum! We all get to come here and have happy fruit conversations with a lot of strangers and maybe a few friends over the Internet, hurray!
#2 - I really appreciate the ultimate message here about copper use, especially for organic growers who have fewer alternatives.
I want #1
Great! I’d gently encourage us all to re-read our posts before we click that last button. I’d say that I end up deleting half the posts I draft because I decide it’s a totally inane question that’ll spam up the board, or I realize it’s not the nicest/happiest thing to say, or whatever. It’s very easy- too easy- to say just about anything to any anonymous person on the Internet!
P.S. #1 and #2 weren’t supposed to be exclusive, I might not have made that clear
Please calm down guys. This leads to no result. Everybody stated his opinion thoroughly now.
The issue at hand has actually been reduced to personal attacks and has nothing to do with overspray. These disagreements are disrespectful to Kevin @thecityman who started the topic to discuss being oversprayed. Highly recommend we look for resolution. I will say clearly if comments are directed at anyone specifically that is crossing the line. I will once again request you please be civil to each other! This argument is not solving anything but rather causing hard feelings.
We remain a civil society by following laws. The laws of this forum and most are that criticism should never be directed at a person. If you disagree with a comment, stick to that comment and don’t personalize your objection by criticizing the person.
If you feel someone else has crossed the line, don’t retaliate- instead, flag the comment and leave the topic. If you really have to say something personal, at least put it into a personal message and don’t make us all have to put up with the mess. Other people’s fights are not enjoyable to those watching on the outside, which is almost always the vast majority.
Incidentally, this forum was founded by a man who was a virtual pioneer of organic growing methods in the east coast and does all he can to reduce his use of synthetic materials and realize a decent harvest. In the past, I’ve argued with him about the concept of organic production being superior to the judicious use of some synthetic intervention.
Over the years, we’ve benefited from our disagreements, or at least I have, and this forum has always been a haven for fruit growers of all philosophies.
However, if you harbor anger at others because they have different opinions about how to grow fruit, take it to your priest, psychologist or bartender. Do not come here to proselytize about the superior morality of your methods. .
Drew, I chose your comment not to signal you out, but because the sentence you wrote was perfect for illustrating my point.
This topic has the dubious distinction of raising more flags, by far, than any on this forum preceding. Any comments not related to to the title of the topic should be taken to the lounge, which is a better category for these types of arguments.
I see from the forecast here, at least in z6, better days are coming. I see the rains are bringing out everyone to this site. I’m only on here when it rains. now, everyone, go back to gardening!! Peace!
A couple of key points about plant damage from herbicide that I did not see discussed.
Dicamba drift became a big issue after new GMO products allowed it to be sprayed over the top of certain crops like cotton or soybeans. This requires special training and certification in my state, but damage from Dicamba to adjacent crops has been substantial. The pesticide inspector told me that he gets more complains about Dicamba damage than anything else.
Roundup applied around fruit trees is not as safe as once thought. This topic has been discussed at most seminars on for commercial apple and peach production in NC. Glufosinate is the suggested replacement with only one Roundup application suggested per year before June. I have not noticed any damage from Roundup to my trees but I’m following the newer recommendation.
We have discussed it among the admins and decided in the spirit of the fruit community we all try to foster here - cordiality, respect, politeness, etc. - we are deleting some of the comments.
It’s a difficult task because if we delete too many posts, many of the comments in the thread lose their context. Admittedly, it comes down to some judgement calls.
Be aware any continuing comments on this thread which add nothing to fruit growing, and continue to bait and foster personal arguments will also be subject to deletion.
Staff does not like to delete posts and uses this prerogative very seldom (i.e. spam posts, over the top language, etc.) but we see no other alternative to get this thread off a personal level and back onto growing fruit. Again please let’s get back to fruitful fruit growing discussions on this thread.
Being new to fruit growing, I am curious what the purpose is for spraying roundup around the base of fruit trees.
For weed control.
I get that, but why? I understand with young trees you don’t want the competition for water and nutrients, but established trees I would think wouldn’t be bothered by surrounding vegetation.
For me its a few things. First, I’ve bumped and consequently damaged more fruit tree trunks than I want to admit. By spraying I create a nice little safety area so I don’t have to get as close to the trunk with my mower. Furthermore, several of my trees have limbs that are low enough that I hit them when I mow under the tree. By spraying and killing these weeds, I don’t have to mow under the limbs so I don’t hit them. Hitting limbs may not damage the tree the way hitting the trunk does, but what often happens is I knock fruit off the limbs. That may not be a big deal long-term, but anyone who has accidentally knocked a nice piece of fruit off a tree knows it can hurt your heart!
Third, I do it because there is competition for water and nutrients. I think you are right in saying that an adult tree with deep, long roots is not harmed much by the competition of wees. But I want my trees to have every advantage possible, even if it is just a few extra ounces of water or “food”
Last but not least, I personally just think it makes my orchard look nicer. I mulch my trees and grass grows up through the mulch after a while to the point where you can’t see the mulch. After spraying you can. I think those little brown circles look so much better than just having weed or grass growing up to the tree- but of course that is just opinion.
Thank you, and you are correct. I genuinely was curious if he had any kind of verifiable information or even what his own theory was on how a scion exposed to spray would somehow transfer the spray that contacts a 6 inch scion into the new full sized tree and then fruit produced 4 years later. I suspect his theory is that it somehow changes the DNA but I can only guess why he feels this way-which is why I asked.
Best comment on this thread, IMO, and I’d like to thank you for saying it. I often feel like my level of expertise is so far below many folks on here that I don’t contribute much to the knowledge base this site contains. But in cases like this one, it is my sincere hope that just by reporting my own experience and even my problems, others will learn and I will have made a meaningful contribution to the community and the overall “tree” of knowledge that exists here. I really do hope people just like yourself have learned that copper can and will damage leaves and cause them to drop in massive amounts . (Its seems pretty certain now that copper was the problem). Furthermore, it is my hope that not only will the people here now learn about the potential problems with copper, but also that future fruit growers using this website will find this thread using the site’s search engine and will benefit from what me and others here have learned.