I’m fairly new at apples. I have a 6-yr old Enterprise. That’s after losing both Liberty and Chestnut crab, planted at the same time, to rabbit damage before I started placing wire mesh around the trunks. I also have a ton of 1-3 yr old trees, both dwarf and semi, both dessert and cider varieties.
I’ve tried to select trees for disease resistance, where it is known. For many of the speculative cider varieties, it’s a crap shoot. I’m optimistic that I can control insects with modest spraying but I’d really like to avoid dependence on fungicide and vulnerability to fireblight.
My modest contribution here is that I’ve found Roxbury Russet to be robust and productive with minimal attention.
Before there was chemical fertilizer (e.g., DAP), brewers reportedly added meat to fermenting cider for protein. I think that started after someone serendipitously discovered that the cider was better if a rat had accidentally fallen into the barrel. I doubt anyone deliberately added whole rats, but maybe some scrap meat after butchering livestock.
So worms, mice droppings, or even whole mice might be a plus.
My one success story… (so far) Early McIntosh above. Perdue’s article list it as succeptable to scab… but resistent to FB CAR Powdery Mildew. Mine have always been very clean as pictures above… no scab ever seen.
In my location this tree and Akane, and Hudson golden gem have proven to be only mildly affected by CAR… but my Gold Rush has been severely affected by CAR and possibly other foliage issues. I dont think GR is going to make it here.
Also… I am very interested in growing crab apple varieties… if that will help with my no spray goals… If any of you have had no spray success with crabs… larger crabs good for fresh eating… I would love to hear about that. Pictures welcome too.
I have heard from many people who would disagree, and who would tell you they can taste the difference between cider that contains codling moths and that which does not. Also, in my opinion, cider-makers who make cider without the use of sulfites will likely have better resutls without the addition of codling moths, rats, or rat droppings.
Thanks- I should have said that more as a question, just checking my understanding of other comments above. When I made cider for 30 years I discarded wormy apples but now curious if that is necessary for good cider. Am helping a young cidermaker source free apples from neglected trees so hard to find worm free apples here. PS @JohnnyRoger - do you know about the Lost Apple Project in the NW? They might help you ID your old unknown trees.
You’ll have to plant a liberty apple right next to it. Completely anecdotal evidence of course but enterprise seems to be completely free this year again. Living in a completely different environment can produce completely different results of course.
Possibly the one recently named “Firecracker”?
A red fleshed crab of some size. I’ve grafted, but it hasn’t fruited.
A couple sources says it’s disease resistant.
“winter red flesh” also seems pretty disease resistant…and should bear next year for me.
I imagine that is a great route and closer to a “wild” tree (not necessarily native to the US) which has to have a natural resistance to thrive with neglect. Anyone with specific suggestions who cares to chime in on the crabapple front?
I don’t doubt that you could taste a difference, but my comment was mostly in jest. In all seriousness though, there are plenty of people around the world who consume grubs to survive, and I can’t imagine a few in your cider being truly harmful from a health and well-being perspective, other than possibly some off taste as mentioned which would fall under a different “grading scale” I assume? Any (non-alcoholic) cider I purchase from the store, I assume to be made from all the reject apples that were either diseased, full of worms, or otherwise unfit for a grocery store shelf for small size or otherwise. If this is not the case, I’d be interested to learn more and be happy to be proven incorrect to gain that knowledge.
In a commercial orchard the “rejects” are odd shapes/sizes, ones with a bit of rot/disease, etc. They sprayed massive bug death so very few worms in those rejects. This is based on several years of making cider on rejects from a local commercial orchard.
Re: easy to grow apples, I would definitely knock Hudson Golden Gem off your list @Robert. It is un-growable for me due to bizarre rots. Akane is also horrible for skin rots, I gave up on it many years ago.
Here is my current bulletproof list, I keep changing it so not sure what version you were looking at.
#
Apple
1)
Hunge
2)
Blenheim Orange
3)
GoldRush
4)
Fuji
5)
Gala or Kidds Orange Red (Gala is more reliable though)
6)
Reine des Reinettes
7)
Yates
8)
Cherryville Black (late summer)
9)
Ginger Gold or Pristine (summer)
10)
Limbertwigs (Myers Royal, Black, Kentucky from my direct experience)
That may be true when talking about “a few,” but I have never seen just a few in a bushel of apples–without spraying. When those dastardly devils infest a tree, in my experience, it is pretty devastating to the crop and there is no way I would consider using those infected apples to make cider, or juice. Likewise, the effort to cut out and remove the infected parts of each apple is way too time consuming, and impractical. (I’ve done it before, and will never again.) You will end up throwing away more than half of each and every apple. Of the whole bushel, you may find a few without a worm, maybe, and so that is why I spray with spinosad, and why commercial growers also spray religiously.
The pencil at the bottom is no longer there. Went back to check some old post and it is missing on those as well. Maybe there is a time limit on changes as the one I am writing on now has the pencil.
Many of you all know this… but for those that dont…
One persons bulletproof list… may not work at all for someone else… even in the same zone…
Scott and I are both in 7a… he is in Marylnd and I am in TN.
Fuji and Gold Rush made 3 and 4 on his list…
But for me Fuji died in yr 3 of FB…
Gold Rush looks awful near the end of year 2 of CAR and other foliage issues. I mean awefull… dont think it is going to make it… wondering if what it has other than FB might spread to my other trees.
Small things you might not be considering could make a big difference.
Like when my Fuji and a Red Del died quickly of FB… I had a Bradford pear tree about 50 yards normally upwind of them.
The post excluded fire blight. Gold Rush was suggested by others, but many people did not agree so I am not placing it up there. Other varieties may yet come down.
From my experience growing around 50 varieties here in the deep south, factoring in fire blight, my bulletproof list would be:
Crimson Crisp - very clean, pretty red apples year after year,
Enterprise - Big clean apples, I have a minimal spray program so no plum curculio issues
Hudson Golden Gem - no rot issues for me, clean great tasting apples for the last 7 years, plus the birds pretty much leave my russet, brown apples alone.
Sundance - a grower friendly for variety for me, clean apples, never had a fireblight issue, only issue is biannual bearing.
Goldrush is such a good apple and its only weakness here is CAR, I recommend it for growers where Red Cedars are at least 1/4 mile away. I doubt Goldrush will defoliate 100% from CAR if red cedars are 1/4 mile or more away but I could be wrong, Some CAR on Goldrush is tolerable.
