Organic pest control

General Gardening
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While searching for something else today I found this site: https://www.naturesgoodguys.com/ I’m a container gardener in zone 9A.

In the spring my seedlings always have terrible infestations of what I think are fungus gnats.
At unpredictable times my tomatoes have been devastated by spider mites … for example, two days ago.
Altho this year isn’t too bad, last year white flies were a HUGE problem.
This is the first year leaf miners weren’t my biggest problem, altho they are still obnoxious.

Everything I’ve tried so far for these infestations has been disappointing, to put it mildly. I’ve done many i-net searches, and while I was looking for something else today this site popped up for the first time. Has anybody tried their products?

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For truly organic pest control, grow only plants that are local to your area and have evolved robust defenses against native pests.

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Have you tried Capt Jacks dead bug brew ?

Organic…

You can get 16 oz of concentrate on Amazon… less than 20.00 bucks.

TNHunter

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Some folks use garlic and hot pepper sprays very few use tobacco, some use chrysanthemum.

A friend of a friend that was a hort professor at WKU uses tobacco tea on his orchards and the pictures that i seen everything looks immaculate… even the deer do not browse he reports. I havent tried it myself but i think eventually i will.

Im trying to build up my predators and natural defenses first before i decide on what is best for my location…so i dont spray anything.

Edible Landscaping talks about a collar of tobacco around some things to prevent borers… not sure if that is proven or why he talks about it.

Some interesting discussion here (YMMV).

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Nicotine and nicotine like chemicals are a major reason for declining bee populations. Sure, tobacco tea is organic, but it’s arguably just as bad as the worst insecticides. Nicotine is a systemic and long lasting insecticide that can travel through plant tissue and into flowers. And since nicotine levels in tobacco are highly variable, one batch of tobacco tea or another might have ten times the dosage, so there’s no way he had any control over his much pesticide he was dumping onto his land.

Organic does not automatically mean healthy or good for nature. Ricin is organic, and chestnut blight is organic.

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Also worth mentioning that nicotine in the soil can be picked up by plant roots, so if you’re spraying an orchard with tobacco tea, between overspray, drift, runoff, and soil transmission, it’s safe to say pretty much anything in and around that orchard is going to have some (unknown) level of nicotine contamination. That’s bad, both for anyone eating from that orchard and for any pollinators and beneficial insects that visit the orchard.

Organic does not equal good. It can be, but it can also be very damaging and harmful.

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I mentioned years ago… will do so again that just about everything i grow currently is on land that was once used for production of tobacco. 100 years worth? im not sure of the total history. We grew it for about 15 years… and my father sprayed every chemical that could be bought in the 70s and 80s.

If anything… currently my soil is pretty amazing as far as growing things… and my pollinators are thru the roof.

Will I die from eating things i grow? Maybe… im not sure the autopsy report will say that i died from eating fruit from old tobacco fields.

Not saying any of this as pro-tobacco at all… but our farm was paid not to grow tobacco anymore… and i got tired of mowing fields… so its a farm again… or orchards… or whatever im doing is called.

There are guides on this forum of what to spray and when. I think most labels say somewhere

Never spray when small children or pets are in the vicinity Keep children and pets away from sprayed areas for at least 24 hours.

Personally I spent thousands of hours, in/around/among/breathed/touched and even chewed and smoked tobacco as a child with my pets.

Not saying either is right or wrong or anything… but how does something that isnt safe for children or pets safe for pollinators and land and consumption… And tobacco isnt?

Again im not pro tobacco or anti spray… i just like to read and discuss the truth… however that may come about.

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Same, mine was farmland in tobacco country, then suburbs for a few decades before I bought it (and I know for a fact the previous owners were perfectly happy to not only use all kinds of nasty chemicals, they were also perfectly happy to use them against the labeled directions).

I myself grow tobacco, though only the ornamental varieties (I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they have more nicotine though). I also grow a good number of other plants with some pretty nasty insecticides, like chinaberry, torreya, milkweed, and poison ivy (the last one not willingly).

But, as with everything, the dose makes the poison. Nicotine, just like glyphosate and vinegar and organophosphates, has a half life in the soil. After a certain period of time, it breaks down. Sometimes, like with arsenic-based pesticides, the breakdown products are themselves dangerous, but with most stuff that’s not the case.

So it’s a question of exposure. If a field of tobacco gets plowed under, I’d expect the soil there would probably have elevated levels of nicotine, but then again, if the field is plowed under, it’s not like there are going to be many plants in that field blooming anytime soon thereafter. And I suspect a plant covered in dirt leaches more slowly than one that’s chopped up and placed directly in water.

Beyond that, there’s animal behavior. Bees don’t really frequent tobacco much or spend much time in tobacco fields, it’s moth pollinated after all. But white clover? Yeah. And if, unknown to the bees, said white clover got doused with tobacco extract the day before? Yeah, dead bees.

One or two people spraying orchards with tobacco probably isn’t going to matter one way or another. But if large numbers of people, especially people who otherwise attract large numbers of pollinators to their land, start poisoning their flowers with organic but toxic sprays, it’ll make a difference, and not in a good way.

Again, people should use caution, regardless of if they bought a poison or made it themselves. It’s the dose that makes the poison, not the label calling it “organic” or not. Spraying has a role to play in a well-managed garden, but as with all tools, it’s one that should be managed carefully and thoughtfully.

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Hmm. Im not going to plug any companies or websites or social medias but Tobacco Flower honey is a thing. I reckon a good tobacco grower wouldnt have many bees or frequenting because to grow good tobacco you would ‘top’ them. However someone making honey might let them flower… not saying what you said isnt true…just saying that there seems to be a market for that kind of honey.

Not sure this is a good enough source… not wanting to start a war or anything but it seems bees actually enjoy nicotine.

To further my possible ‘tobacco spray’ i have no idea if the professor sprayed in the Fall or early Spring to counter something or another… if that was the case then there probably wasnt any bees around anyways. Possibly alot of his spraying was before flower to ward off deer… i think that was a point to be made in his orchard… and maybe the only point as it was a limited discussion anyways.

There are articles where birds add cigarette butts to their nest to ward off ticks and mites… no sense posting those.

Interesting enough… it might be wise to grow tobacco… as tobacco has many of its own pests. Which in turn raises the level of benefical predators, parasites and pathogens.

Still not pro-tobacco… but its been around many thousands of years and used for more things than not. Im not wanting to spray everything i have with it… but im not wanting to spray everything i have with ‘recommended sprays’ either.

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IMHO, the best organic strategy is to think about what your plants need, not about what poisons can kill pests. The strategies can be complex, but not necessarily hard. Avoiding monocrops is a good start. Thinking about what eats your pests is another good one. There are giant lists of plants that host parasites onto bug pests. Many of them have tiny flowers, such as in the carrot family. Syrphid flies, minute pirate bugs, lacewings, and of course lady bugs are all useful. Having some aphids there means they can stay there and build their families. The nutrition in your food comes from the health of your soil. The health of your plants defends the plants against bugs. I think if you are looking for one spray that will kill all of your pests, you aren’t going to be successful. Adding strategies and perspectives in the long run has always worked best for me. Fruit sox aren’t made of organic materials, but if you soak them in clay, they will ward off apple maggot and codling moth when covering the apple. Tanglefoot covered fake apples work too, and they aren’t a spray. Chickens are helpful. Use as many strategies as you can and have fun with it.

John S
PDX OR

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Yes, I don’t mean to take any emphasis away from the importance of good variety and site selection, plant health, soil building, ecosystem management, and all the rest. Spraying is just one tool among many for fostering rich, bountiful gardens with a reasonable amount of effort and input, and in good years a minor tool.

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There are organic sprays, too, like compost tea and Neem oil.
John S
PDX OR

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You can take a candle and lightly go over the areas with spidermites and things to kill them. I did this a few times with my raspberries in the previous years. Don’t let the flames sit to burn the plants but just a few seconds will kill off the bugs. Also be sure to water well at least a day before you do this then water again. You don’t want a thirsty plant when you’re running flames around them

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this is a good one for @a_Vivaldi

Neem oil is all the rage on social medias for just about every issue with folks that want to be ‘organic’…lots and lots of praise and use of it here in the USA… however the UK thinks the opposite and its banned and unlawful. Almost the exact same things that Vivaldi said about tobacco seems to be true for Neem oil…if you believe what the United Kingdom and their experts think.

I found by accident probably the best statement so far by a writer on the Neem oil ban.

"It may sound counterintuitive to say that we need some pests for pest control, but without the pest species in our gardens, we cannot hope to attract the creatures that eat them and keep their numbers down.

And natural predation is therefore one of the most important elements in organic pest control.

When we have pests, we attract the species above them in the food chain, which can keep their populations in check.

If we eliminate the pests altogether, we create a vacuum that will only be filled once more, and when the pests inevitably return, there will be no predators to keep their numbers down.

Rather than using topical pesticides like neem oil when pest populations become a problem, I’d argue we should look holistically at the problem and aim to restore a natural balance within the garden."

leonardo-dicaprio-clapping

Or as i read long ago… simply put. When you remove the Wolf… you inherit the job of the Wolf.

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I totally agreed with you until I tried it this year. Out of three heirloom tomato varieties “bred for my area” I got ONE tomato. All the other “local” crops either didn’t didn’t hatch, or hatched and failed. Except for spider mites, leaf miners and fungus gnats, the organic and heirloom seeds I’ve been buying from Home Depot and Walmart have always done great.

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It sounds horrible … but I looked it up anyway … THANK YOU !!! (Amazon is evil, I can get it at Home Depot … slightly less evil :smiley: )

The LAST thing I want to do is kill spiders, ladybugs, green lacewings … and this product claims to not kill beneficial insects. I’ll just spray it on my tomato plants for the spider mites, and watch for side effects before using it on anything else.

Thanks again. :+1:

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Captain Jack’s Dead bug brew doesn’t seem to harm my spider friends.

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I accidentally sprayed her with it a day before i took this photo. She’s gone M.I.A. though :sob::sob::sob:

I kidnap jumping spiders from outside and put them inside my greenhouse.

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A lot of heirloom breeds have pretty terrible pest and disease problems, regardless of where they’re grown. Yeah, maybe x tomato did well in 1870s California, but 1870s California doesn’t exist anymore. Environmental conditions have changed, weather patterns have changed, disease and pest pressures have changed (often dramatically), and gardening methods have changed. Sometimes the common modern varieties are less pest resistant than heirloom varieties, but in my experience that’s not usually the case, especially with tomatoes.

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Last year the leaf miners were unbearable, so I tried neem oil - just about killed everything I sprayed it on (suffocated the leaves I suppose) and the leaf miners weren’t bother a bit about the neem oil, chomped everything and left their trails of poop in all my greens.

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Neem oil doesn’t work in leaf miners for me too but a systemic does :melting_face:however, you don’t want to eat food of systemic treated plants for like, 45 days or something