I heard an old “home remedy” for fruit tree pests recently involving lye soap and cloth strips. Mix the lye soap in water and after soaking place the cloth strips around the base of the tree. For any insect pests which can not fly, a physical barrier like this would likely work.
What insect pests which cause damage to our fruits can not fly though? I asked an “AI” and got this answer:
There are several fruit tree insect pests that cannot fly. Here are a few examples:
Codling Moth (Cydia pomonella): The adult codling moth is a moth that has wings and can fly. However, the damaging stage of this pest is the larva, which cannot fly. The larvae hatch from eggs laid by the adult moths and tunnel into the fruit, causing damage.
Oriental Fruit Moth (Grapholita molesta): Similar to the codling moth, the adult oriental fruit moth is a moth capable of flying, but the larvae are the damaging stage. The larvae hatch from eggs and bore into the fruit, causing damage.
San Jose Scale (Quadraspidiotus perniciosus): San Jose scale is a small, immobile scale insect that infests various fruit trees, including apples, peaches, and plums. The nymphs crawl to settle on branches and fruits, where they feed by sucking sap. They do not have wings or the ability to fly.
Plum Curculio (Conotrachelus nenuphar): The plum curculio is a weevil that primarily infests stone fruits such as plums, peaches, and cherries. While the adults have wings and can fly, the larvae, which are the damaging stage, develop within the fruit and do not possess wings or the ability to fly.
These pests may not have the ability to fly in their damaging stages, but they can still cause significant damage to fruit trees. Implementing appropriate pest management strategies, such as monitoring, cultural practices, and targeted insecticide applications, can help control these pests and protect fruit trees from infestation.
If the adult can fly to and deposit eggs/larvae onto or into the tree/fruit, a physical barrier at the base would seem ineffective. So what pests can not fly at any stage of their lifecycle and therefore could be effectively thwarted in this way? By a physical barrier at or on the base of a tree, denying access to any insect which would need to walk/crawl onto the tree.
Ants (aphid farmers), snails/slugs, caterpillars are a few I can think of.
I am going to not spray anything against anything for a couple of years… maybe never. I believe that most pests and insects have predators…
I watched a wasp clutch a small baby caterpillar of some sort on one of my peach trees then fly away with it. No telling how many they removed without me noticing.
I know i have several mantis and many other predators that i probably havent noticed… the more pests they have the more they will multiply is my theory for now.
Birds are perching in my young fruit trees and i see them grabbing things… likely to feed baby insect eating birds… which i want more of.
So far nobody wants to eat Japanese beetles as far as i can tell… i am the predator of those things… I think moles eat the grubs… but my dogs have removed most of the moles…
These are wasp eggs laid on a caterpillar… they will eat it alive…then grow up to eat other caterpillars.
If this does work,it could be an additional barrier to use,along with a ring of Tanglefoot,around the trunk.I wonder,if the lye strips might dry and need to be moistened again.
Well, silly AI response: In a chicken-and-egg scenario, the flying moth came first and the end result is your garden got damaged.
In the predator-and-pest scenario, in any local area, there often is a temporary imbalance of pests and predators. Many gardeners will chose to react rather than wait for the balance to swing in their favor.
So far the “bad” insects have far outpaced the predators here though. I see lots of ladybug, praying mantis, assassin bug, dragonfly, wasp, etc… I launched the Cornell “Merlin” app a few days ago and held my phone over my head for ~10 seconds and it identified 7 bird species. Nonetheless there seems to be an abundance of whiteflies and leafminers and plum curculio and a thousand varieties of caterpillars/moths, etc…
As far as crawling/walking insects specifically, if I can keep them from ever gaining purchase on the tree, they’re at least one less thing to worry about. I’m cautiously optimistic something I’m trying has helped. I’ve for years put wood ash around peach trees and have rarely had to contend with borers. This year I also put ash around all my apple trees and so far I’ve only squished a single bunch of wooly apple aphid on one tree. Typically by this point I’d have had red fingertips numerous times from getting rid of them.
I’d love to not have to spray anything… When I do I try to lean towards the “low-impact” end of the spectrum. If I discover that anything I’m doing is hurting beneficial insects or discouraging predators, I’ll do something else. Good luck with the “no spray” route!
Yeah, that was one of the things mentioned. After an amount of time, or perhaps after a lot of rain.
What are your target insect pests which are blocked by the tanglefoot ring?
Very good point… Take peach tree borers for instance, they’re a moth which can fly (during the day from what I’ve read). If that’s how the borer (worm) originally makes it to the tree then this type of physical barrier wouldn’t be able to deter them.
I will likely at some point try the molasses traps if codling moths become an issue… and i talked before about one of my mentors spraying chewing tobacco tea… his orchard is immaculate. He uses cigarette butt tea for other things too… as seen below.
My orchard is just hobby for me and for my family to consume… i dont need maximum production or flawless fruits.
I dont want to start a debate or anything…but some folks think that tobacco is a natural defense against many things…and can be helpful when needed. Perhaps just another tool in the toolbox for some folks.
I didn’t see any comment in the article about tobacco mosaic virus, which affects other members of the solanaceae family. I’d want to know more before trying their suggestions.
I was talking about neonics a few weeks ago with a friend.
Interesting to read about. As the name suggests, neonicotinoids are chemically related to nicotine, a potent natural insecticide produced by tobacco plants as a defence against herbivorous insects. https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30697-3
So is the nicotine derived from either cigarette butts or chewing tobacco a deterrent or a contact or ingestion poison?
This comment from the balconygardenweb.com article makes it seem like a deterrent:
Peach Tree Borers: Sprinkling tobacco from a cigarette near plants will repel peach tree borers from invading your tree.
This from the Houzz article makes it seem like a contact poison:
I use this stuff ONLY on my most stubborn pests this year, the Japanese beetles, as a powerful contact, knock down, spray.
Either way it certainly does seem like a potentially good “tool in the toolbox”.
But then there’s this note as well:
Warning
Avoid using tobacco near or on edible plants as it may remain in the plant’s system for several weeks. Plants from the nightshade family such as peppers, tomatoes, and eggplants should also be avoided with the tobacco treatment.
Growing up my dad learned from an old timer how to get rid of fleas and ticks… You cant talk openly about it anymore… it just causes too many debates and arguments… but back in the old days people did what worked… there was no google or forums.
Im not going to go too deep into it but if you or your animals have worms… ingesting tobacco kills them. Plenty of info for survival and homesteading etc on the web. Also kills lice.
There is a wiki on it…
For the info on TMV
“much of the tobacco industry has eliminated TMV from production sites.”
I grew up with my mom and dad spraying and dusting everything with Sevin… and whatever chemicals they sold at the hardware or feed store to be put in a sprayer they used it.
Likely in 30 years people will talk about their parents spraying their gardens and trees with whatever is available now…but will seem foolish then.
Back in the old days to have a harvest you have to stop everything…even butterflies and bees.
We will never resolve it on here… and to be honest in todays time you cant discuss it.
You are talking about something that folks 50 years ago or so before the internet or social media used… its old timey medicine.
It would be like suggesting mercurochrome over neosporin.
You can talk about wood ashes and its either the best thing…or is full of toxins and chemicals and causes cancer.
Somehow though we can talk about using animal feces to grow things and its still somewhat acceptable.
Lets put it this way… if you had lice or fleas or ticks or intestinal worms…or the things you were growing were infested with things eating them… tobacco extracts would likely make life easier… than not using them. Other than that its too debatable.
I would assume that the nicotine or related compounds are systemic so that “mulching” results in them being taken up into the tree? At least Imidacloprid and I assume other neonics are so perhaps an “organic” way of achieving the same end goal. Eh, more or less…
Peach and Persimmon borers are moths, which presumably can fly. Apple borers are a type of beetle, I also assume which can fly(?). If the tobacco mulch is systemic then I can see how it could help contend with any of those. How is Scott’s use of Neem on peaches effective though? Is it simply because the borers like to go in close to ground level and the oil coating is acting as a physical deterrent? If so then how does the wood ash I put around Peach trees (on the ground, not onto the trunk) provide any help at all? I don’t know for certain that it does other than this being the 8th year I’ve done so and I’ve only had borers one time and that’s when I didn’t put any fresh ash down for 2 years. I did actually mention in another post that it looked like there were some on one Peach tree but after a few minutes probing around with a small wire, I don’t think so.
What about Wooly Apple Aphids? Can they fly or do they have to walk/crawl to gain purchase on a tree? I ask because I put wood ash around all my Apple trees this winter and so far have had far less WAA than typical. I should be more diligent about leaves/debris on top of the ash though, or weeds touching the tree. Just seems like that could allow a pathway for WAA or caterpillars or other detrimental insects onto a tree. Based on my current assumption that the ash acts like DE and they’d rather not navigate over/through it. Very much a guess though…
The various Tobacco based methods are certainly intriguing… If they are systemic and make their way throughout all parts of the plant/flowers/fruit though, hmm… I’ll admit some trepidation there.
No clue on the science of it all… i just know that when folks get borers sometimes they lose the whole tree. The old man that sprays chewing tobacco tea on his trunks that i talked about last year has no issues. There are probably sprays that would do the same thing.
As for the wood ash… my memory isnt what it used to be but im pretty sure i saw where someone applies it to their trunks like some folks paint them white. No idea where i read or saw that…but im pretty sure.
Im only talking about ‘natural’ defenses which doesnt have a big following on here or anywhere really… most folks just buy the jug that has all the bugs that can be killed and spray.
Edible Landscaping says to place a collar of tobacco around the base of a persimmon tree to prevent borers… so im not making this stuff up.
I chatted with someone in a FB thread (don’t know if he’s a member here or not) about a lime+salt slurry he mixes up and paints on the base of trees. When I’m putting wood ash down I do try to get it onto the trunks a foot or so up but I’m sure it washes off after the first rain. Perhaps adding something to get it to persist longer there would be helpful.
So if ash, or tobacco, on the ground around a tree… Is actually effective as a deterrent… Then that seems to imply that the borers make their way to the tree across the ground. Which would be odd considering the fact that the adults are moths which can fly. But then it sounds like they don’t fly well, and perhaps as a result they deposit eggs on the ground versus somewhere on the tree’s surface.
No. Adults of some borers lay eggs low on the trunk or in the ground near the trunk and the larvae hatch there, they do not go across the ground.
It’s not because they don’t fly well, it’s because they have the most favorable conditions for larval development there. For example, adults of the flatheaded woodborer (Capnodis tenebrionis), a European species I am more familiar with, feed in the canopies of fruit trees, and repeatedly descend to ground level to lay eggs.
Some of the mechanical (traditional) measures to combat this pest consist of preventing females from laying eggs in a narrow and shallow belt around the trunks of fruit trees (placing sheep’s wool in which the females get entangled or other similar material, black plastic sheeting with a net on the ground around the trunk, collars made of hard cardboard or sheet metal).
Maybe the methods mentioned by the others work on the same principle - they discourage or deter females from laying eggs.
