Pecan varieties resistant to heat shock

Very good Jose, sounds like you have a good plan going. My trees are small, but from my reading everything I can, to choose my young scions, I think, from what I have read, my top pick for type 1 would be Hark or Shephard, and for type 2 probably Kanza or Surecrop or a bit later is Oswego that should be ok? If your grow season is a lot shorter than central Kansas you might want to try earlier varieties like Warren346 and Snaps if people think they can take your heat? The orchard I linked to is in kansas, he grows them all and kansas gets the heat! I have 2 big 80 year pecans in my yard, huge seedling trees, baking in this 100F+ heat this week. We get bad droughts too. I have a friend down at Del Rio, Texas with a big old pecan orchard, that produces great, lots more heat and drought than kansas! Probably hotter than your location. He brought me some nuts this spring, no irrigation the last decade. I dont know his varieties but I could ask. I actually was originally wanting the shorter season Warren346 and Snaps but decided my growing season was suitable for the other ones which are more midseason ripening. I like the idea of at least two cultivars of type 2 and two of type 1, to get better or more sure pollen overlaps in case on some years one is later to bloom or shed or receive etc, I tend to go a bit all-out on things lol.

@Olpea good questions! I dont know, but one question I have, is it possible some cultivars have a bit of their own bloom pollen shed/reception overlap, making them have a bit of self-fertility? I read of at least one that did but I cant remember which one. Most of my grafts are this year, but when my trees get an extra twig i will be glad to send you some scion for a limb of type 2. Surecrop should have a twig for you come Feb since it’s 5’ tall. I actually have an extra kanza leftover in the fridge but with this heat it might be unlikely to take this late?

Thank you very much for the kind offer Paul!

Actually, I have a type 2 at the peach orchard (Kanza) just not at the house. I may just end up grafting another full pecan tree (type 2) here at the house to make sure the pecans at the house have adequate pollenizers.

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Hi @Olpea I suggest you bring another type 2 variety such as Kanza to your home orchard. I don’t know the answer why Major is being pollinated.

Hi @Jose-Albacete forget Fisher. It’s one of the first I or my friend Gary Fernald recommend to those in Chicago, IL. because it’s colder there than here. I don’t know how to “equate” your climate to the pecan varieties I’m able to grow. All those except Pawnee don’t mature here that he is recommending to you, therefore, I do not know those varieties.

Glad you’re getting excellent help.

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Kanza matures here. I missed that. Kanza I can see why Darrel is recommending. It’s a southern x northern pecan.

That’s all I got & nothing more.

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Barkslip, the disparity is because he has a climate strongly influenced by location. He can grow varieties such as Avalon which is an early maturing variety. Kanza is a good choice, however, it makes relatively small nuts compared to other varieties with potential in his climate. Please note that the varieties I suggested as most appropriate are early maturity with late September or early October nut drop. If you look closely at a map, he is near 40 degrees latitude which is roughly comparable to your location, however, his climate is dramatically different.

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Hi Mark, welcome again to this post from the “brave” hahahahahaha, one of these days we have to talk long and hard about peach varieties (I know you like good peaches).

I see that I am not the only one who tries to form his orchard of pecans trees with suitable varieties.
In the end we will turn this thread into something useful.

To be as accurate as possible in terms of the climatic data of my population, I am a few kilometers below the parallel 40 North latitude, that is, about 200 kilometers south of the city of Denver (Colorado), and seeing the physical map of states United, my climate has to be very, very, very similar to the climate of central Kansas or Colorado in terms of temperatures and length of summer, but with low humidity.

I calculate that more or less as the area within the blue trace.

As I told you, I am going to put some photographs of my orchard, so that you can see only a small detail of what I grow.

Stone fruit in bloom this spring, and in its current state today

Plums and pluots in bloom this spring and today

Some pistachios

Some cherry trees

Some apple trees

Some pear trees

Some apricots

So you can see, water is not a problem, but I have to respect the varieties originally selected, since they are the ones that I consider to be the best adapted to my conditions, despite the fact that I am adding more varieties, because I am finding more interesting varieties and I want to ask your opinion (before making any silly mistake).

These are the varieties currently assured:

  • Pawnee
  • Avalon ( the most important for me )
  • Lakota
  • Kanza
  • Caddo
  • Creek

Ok Dax, we remove Fisher from the equation and ask Darrel what he thinks of these other varieties.

Darrel, or any other partner of the forum with information.

Now comes when I need advice again about these varieties

  • Lipan
  • Mandan

And the new varieties

  • Eclipse
  • Excel

Regards
Jose

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Lipan is scab susceptible. I have not propagated it due to too many failures of USDA varieties grown in my climate.

Mandan has some potential. I can’t grow it due to disease problems, but your climate would prevent most issues.

Excel is a definite no-go due to mid-October maturity. Your growing season is not long enough.

That leaves Eclipse. There is a moral issue with propagating Eclipse. USDA produced the variety in 1963 as a cross of Mohawk X Starking Hardy Giant, a full sibling of Pawnee. Some zealous growers propagated it during the time it was supposed to be on trial by universities. Along the way, someone forgot that they had grafted a tree and eventually sold rights to the tree to a man who patented it and now sells trees. The moral issue is over purchasing trees that were illegally patented. The USDA does NOT patent any trees they release. Beyond the patent issue, the variety is only marginally good in terms of nut quality and production. It has the advantage of early nut maturity but nut size is mediocre at 65 per pound and overall nut characteristics are nothing to brag about. I’ve looked at mature trees at Auburn and tested some of the nuts. IMO, the seedling tree I found in Florence, AL is a better nut all around.

http://www.alabamapecangrowers.com/cultivars.html

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Hi Again Darrell and other friends.
I have more or less organized the selection of varieties (it has been a really rewarding and useful step to avoid making mistakes).
Because most of the varieties are not available in Spanish nurseries, I have no choice but to graft them.
In Spain, the Fruitex nursery has available very good rootstock for pecan, both in pot available all year round, and bare root in winter (much cheaper).
The grafted pecan seedlings in this nursery are not very expensive ( 13.5 € , that is, 16 US dollars), and I estimate that the two-year rootstock suitable for grafting will be around 4 or 5 € (5 or 6 US dollars), which is a really reasonable price, compared to other nurseries in Spain and the European Union.

I need to know all the details and advice that you can give me, about the grafting of pecan on young seedlings with 2 years of age.

In this link, there is information regarding the whip and tongue grafting system ( it is a graft system that I master perfectly, as it is my favorite graft system ) carried out logically in February with the rootstock in a state of winter dormancy, and covering the graft with soil or parafilm to avoid desiccation of the cuttings

https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1376&title=Budding%20and%20Grafting%20of%20Pecan

If you are guys so kind , please describe to me step by step which is your favorite grafting system for pecan, which offers you better results in young seedlings and grafting with refrigerated cuttings.

All information , It will all be greeted wonderfully like May rain, and I will file it away for the highest possible success rate.

Has any of you grafted pecan by forcing temperature indoors (in a greenhouse)? If so, what is the appropriate temperature for grafting the pecan indoors?

Thank you all very much for your invaluable help

Regards
Jose

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Sorry Jose do you have a link to this nursery? Thank’s!

Pecan is arguably the hardest to graft tree that I’ve successfully grafted. It is harder than walnut. Pear, apple, and stone fruit grafting is utterly simple by comparison. That said, there are key elements to grafting pecan successfully. The first is that grafting has to be completed before mid-June regardless of method used though some forms of budding can still work through August.

Water availability to the rootstock is one of the most important factors. I’ve had excellent success this year with late grafts of pecan because we have had abundant rainfall.

High quality scionwood is also critical. I grow scionwood on young vigorous trees with at least 2/3 meter of new growth and prefer 1 to 2 meters. Do NOT use the last 8 to 10 inches as a scion. You can use terminal buds of walnut with high success, but not pecan. Ideal scionwood is 8 to 16 mm diameter with buds every 2 to 4 inches. Scionwood should be collected in late January or very early february before it breaks dormancy. Cut into sticks 20 to 30 cm long and wrap with barely damp paper towels and store in a refrigerator at 1 to 3 degrees C.

I prefer grafting pecan on a rootstock that is 2 inches diameter using the bark graft method suggested by Bill Reid. If I can’t do the bark graft, or if trunk bleeding is likely to be an issue, I prefer to use long buds. A long bud is just a piece of scionwood sliced up the center with a single bud cluster. It should be about 6 or 7 cm long. It is inset into the bark of an actively growing tree of at least an inch diameter. After a week, the top of the tree is cut off which should force the bud into active growth. There are normally 4 buds in a pecan bud cluster with the primary bud often failing to grow. Even if the primary fails, one or more of the backup buds will usually grow.

Whip and tongue grafts can work if made very early in the spring. I’ve never had more than 50% takes using whip and tongue. If you use this method, I strongly suggest using scionwood 1 cm or slightly larger in diameter.

If you attempt grafting 2 year rootstocks, be sure to have them established in containers several months before grafting. Whip and tongue grafts with pecan work best just as the rootstock breaks dormancy in the spring. This will be sometime near the end of March or first 2 weeks of April in your climate.

Dax has a very good thread on bench grafting pecan using a heat tube. If you try bench grafting, I strongly advise using a heat tube. Keep the rootstock cool, keep the scion cool, heat only the graft union to a temperature close to 26C. Dax can provide more detail.

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Hi Luis, of course I give you the link to the nursery.

It has excellent varieties of walnut, and some varieties of pecans (I don’t know which pecan varieties are available yet in this nursery ).
Some years ago I bought some really fantastic walnut trees in this nursery. and I remember having spoken by email with Ramon Rovira (I think he is the manager of the nursery).
Keep in mind that for the European walnut they have a huge amount of excellent rootstocks resistant to soil diseases (phytophthora) and suitable for alkaline and acidic soils.
And I know that for pecan they also have good selected rootstock.

This is the nursery link

  • Fruitex

https://fruitex.es/pacana-carya-illioniensis

And the link to the contact

https://fruitex.es/contact

Now I’m going to read carefully all the information sent by Darrel, who is a real encyclopedia of pecan trees .

Regards
Jose

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Thanks for the link!

Hi again friends.
You are helping me, and I cannot help but make a small contribution.
I’ve been talking on the phone with my friend Antonio Benito, the guy who lives in the town of Guadix in the province of Granada.
He has told me that there are two nurseries very close to his population, which have hybrid rootstock for grafting pecans.

These rootstocks provide very good qualities to the tree (it has an excellent adaptation to all types of terrain whit excellent agronomic behavior ), and the most important thing is its magnificent compatibility and simplicity in the grafting of the pecan.
I already anticipate that my friend Antonio is a real disaster to grafting, and he has told me that of the grafts that he did in September of last year with the Pacht Budding system abroad, he has had over 80% success.
If Antonio has been 80% successful, any of you would have had 100% success, because as I say Antonio is very bad in grafting (I know him perfectly , and he is very bad).

I have asked you to speak with the nursery to request information about this rootstock (name, parenterals, etc …), because if the nursery propagates this rootstock from selected nuts, I would be happy to buy a good amount of this type of nuts to send them to the United States and that you test them in his orchards to made rootstooks (and you can multiply them).

It is very interesting to have a good rootstock for pecan trees with good agronomic behavior and easy to graft.

This is a photograph of one of the pecan grafts, made by my friend Antonio .

I hope I can give good information on this rootstock in a few days.
I think this nursery has this type of rootstock available , in thin caliber, suitable for Whip and Tongue grafting, and in thick caliber (at least as a finger thumb), so it could also graft with the bark graft system.

So we have in contact.

Regards
Jose

Jose, it is more complicated than that. Rootstocks should be selected for uniform rapid growth, climate adaptation, winter hardiness (according to where the tree will be grown), and other agronomic traits. There is no such thing as a perfect rootstock. It is very easy to start trees on the wrong rootstock for a given growing area. To give a couple of examples, Riverside is often used as a rootstock in the southwestern U.S. because it is adapted to the calcareous soils and dry climate. Elliott is often used in the Southeastern U.S. because it is a long season vigorous and healthy choice. Major is often used in the central states because it is very winter hardy. Move Riverside to the southeast or move Elliott to where I live in North Alabama or move Major to Texas and they will fail for one reason or another. For this reason, I recommend getting rootstocks adapted to the region in which the trees will be grown. For my area, Lakota has made excellent rootstocks with rapid growth and healthy uniform seedlings. I tried Kanza and while I got some very good rootstocks, roughly half the seedlings were too slow growing and had to be culled. For your area, Lakota is likely to make excellent rootstocks.

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Darrell, honestly, it is a real luxury to talk to someone who knows perfectly the subject that is being discussed.
My friend Antonio answered me and the rootstock that we have available is Riverside (which you have available in USA in tons hahahaha).
I was delighted that you told me that this rootstock is resistant to chalky soils.

I have read that Riverside it is very resistant to salinity, but I have not found anything regarding its resistance to calcareous soils with a more or less high pH (between 7.5 and 8 ph), since for me it is essential that the rootstock is resistant to the chalky ground.

Remember that the title of the post is “varieties of pecans resistant to heat shock”, but little by little I see that this is wrong, since the pecan trees is a variety that loves the sun and hot summers, and the problems of leaf scorch they come for other reasons (mainly due to a micronutrient assimilation problem).

It is sure , that an unsuitable rootstock for calcareous soils will have two problems:

  • Iron assimilation problems, with its consequent iron chlorosis
  • Impossibility of assimilating other nutrients due to iron deficiency (the most important ones such as manganese, nickel, zinc, etc …), and generating the problem of leaf scorch.

So the use of a suitable rootstock is as important or more important than the choice of variety to graft.

And to the tests I refer:

I am passionate about many fruit varieties, but I and my family like the interspecific plum x apricot hybrids (we can call them Pluots obtained by Zaiger, Metis obtained by Bradford Genetics, etc …).
In this case I am going to show you an interspecific plum x apricot hybrid, called Ebony 85, from the program to obtain this type of variety carried out in Spain by Provedo nurseries.

It must be taken into account that I have a lot of friendship with Luis Aliseda , the manager of Provedo nursery , and this variety is not yet commercialized in their catalog, and it comes from the field of testing and experimentation multiplied in vitro by this nursery (the trees that they commercially produce it is grafted on the rootstock requested by the buyer) .

In these first two photographs you will see the variety Ebony 85, multiplied in-vitro, and lacking rootstock, and this is its agronomic behavior in my calcareous soil.

However, in these other two photographs, you will see the same variety grafted to crown at the beginning of April, on an adult 29-C mirabolan , suitable for calcareous soils , with cuttings obtained in winter, and kept refrigerated, from the first chlorotic plant of the two first photos .

As we can see, it is like night and day, the first plant without the contribution of ferric chelates will surely die, while the same variety grafted onto a suitable rootstock develops like a champion.

Exactly the same as we see in this example, it is comparable to any fruit variety (it is a fact), the choice of the appropriate rootstock is “PRIMORDIAL”.

Darrell, I keep abusing your trust.
If you think Riverside is hardy to chalky soil “that’s great”, but if you know of any other rootstock even more resistant to calcareous soil , please let me know.

If Riverside is suitable, I will ask the nursery to reserve 30 or 40 good rootstocks for me or even to send them in pots to do the planting and for the rootstock to acclimatize to my conditions, since it is important to acclimatize the rootstock to my land before grafting.

Regards
Jose

https://cgru.usda.gov/carya/pecans/riverside.htm

As you can see in the link, Riverside has some advantages in some climates and soil conditions. The only concern I would have is with cold tolerance.

I highly recommend getting seedlings in containers and be very specific that you want only the fastest growing seedlings. One of L.J. Grauke’s recommendations is to toss the slowest growing 30% of seedlings. This has been very good advice in my experience.

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Jose, you have a very nice orchard!
I am at the far southeast side of the blue circle you drew. Yes I think you have your climate figured right, I did some reading and it seems your climate is similar to mine, but more similar to the Colorado/Kansas/New Mexico border area, about 4 hours west of me, on the southwest side of your circle, which is very dry.
We have very intense sunshine.
With your irrigation plans, your pecans should do fine. For new plants I recommend you plant them in late fall, say in November, if you can, or else as early as possible in spring, Say in early March, ±, so that they can acclimate through the winter and be ready for your summer sun.
And you may have to shade young grafts. But pecans can take heat fairly well, similar to pear I would say.
I think those types I am pursuing here should do ok for you as well. Enjoy growing!

Darrell, if I understand you correctly, what you suggest is the following:
Since the Riversade rootstock seedlings are obtained from seed selection, due to genetic variability some of them may be more vigorous and faster in growth than others, so you recommended , for example in an amount of 100 rootstocks, to place the plants in deep pots suitable for the rootstock taproot, and make a selection of 70% of the most vigorous and fast growing rootstocks and discard 30% of the less vigorous and slower growing rootstocks.

Please tell me if I have understood it correctly, since this would be very easy to do, and we would have selected the most vigorous rootstocks with rapid growth.

Hi Paul.
I am glad that you like my fruit orchard, it is the fruit of the work of more than 20 years, making tremendous mistakes and learning a lot from them, reading a lot of information, and due to a tremendous passion for fruit trees.

My first big mistake.

When we implanted the wastewater treatment plant in my business, it was mandatory to plant trees to use them as a “green filter” using the treated water for irrigation.

I told my father that instead of planting poplar trees that only produce shade, we could plant “Juglans Regia” walnut trees to have good walnut crops.

At that time (30 years ago), I did not know absolutely everything about fruit trees, and in a nursery we bought 100 walnut trees.

So far , the movie is perfect.

The walnut “Juglans Regia” is a fruit tree that is delicate, from the choice of the type of rootstock depending on the type of soil, as well as the choice of varieties resistant to sun stroke (Chandler grafted on a suitable rootstock, it would have been a magnificent choice ), but what we bought were 100 frank walnut trees (born from walnut seed ) and without grafting hahahahaha.

In the first year 50% died, and the rest died in the second and third year hahahahahahaha.

Then I understood that it was necessary to read a lot before planting a fruit tree.

I currently have my walnut trees, Chandler as a fruiting variety, and some Fernette trees , as a Chandler pollinator variety, grafted onto rootstock “MJ-209 xRA” .
The Chandler variety loves scorching sun, and has no sun stroke leaf scorch problems, and the rootstock MJ-209 xRA (Juglans regia x Juglans Nigra hybrid selection) gives it great resistance to root asphyxia problems, resistance to active limestone, and gives the tree tremendous vigor.

For this reason, before making a pecan plantation, I want to be sure that I am going to make it the best possible way.

What you say about graft protection is very interesting, and it is a practice widely used by me in some fruit varieties.

I’m going to show you some pictures.

This is the front part of the graft pots that are in my yard (about 700 rootstocks), and although it looks like Israel’s “iron dome” anti-missile shield hahahahahaha, it fulfills a very different role.

The grow tubes are for grafting excellent varieties of seedless grapes.
The young initial sprouting of the vineyard is extremely sensitive to solar radiation, and if a grow tube is not placed on each plant, the sun will burn the sprouting and the grafts will die.

The grow tube offers many advantages to plants that are difficult to graft, because it creates a very stable indoor microclimate, protects the plant from drying out by the wind and the sun, and prevents breakage caused by vermin and birds.

I use micro-perforated grow tube of 75 centimeters high (there are much larger ones).

These are two perfectly consolidated grape grafts.

I graft the vine onto the 140 Paulsen rootstock, which is the appropriate rootstock for my terrain and vigorous for seedless grape varieties.

Logically if we do everything right, it is necessary to choose good varieties, I show you two of them

  • Sweet Saphire

  • Autumn Crisp

This year I have grafted 15 different varieties, in the quality of the ones I show you.

So “YES”, I believe that placing a grow tube in the most youthful state of pecan plants can contribute to success.

If all goes well, my future pecan plantation will be a success.

And " YES " , I really enjoy growing fruit trees.

Regards
Jose

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Jose, yes, you have it perfectly. Only in one regard would I suggest differently. If 40% of the seedlings wind up slow growing, cull all 40%. The intent is to plant only trees that are very healthy and growing rapidly. As I noted above, when I grew rootstocks from Kanza nuts, too many of them were slow growing. I wound up with about 50% good seedlings.

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Darrell, hahahaha.
As they say in my small town “you’re smarter than reddish mice” hahahaha, and you don’t leave a single end untied.

The idea is to buy the rootstock in the nursery, since obtaining rootstock from seed (from walnut of the Riverside variety) would lose me at least two years, and I cannot afford to wait that long.
but we already know that the nurserymen do not discriminate the rootstocks and in the lot they will be rootstoocks vigorous and less vigorous.

Since the price of the Riverside rootstock is very cheap and I have to acclimatize the rootstock to the ground at least 1 year before grafting, it is advisable to buy a big amount quantity of rootstock in order to discard all the necessary percentage of plants of little vigor and slow growth.

Darrell you are a true “crack”.

I’ll call the nursery by phone to see if they can send me potted rootstock now to plant “NOW”, and acclimatize them.
We are in contact.

Regards
Jose

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