Damn, that bad luck.
I have looked at the v. arieties available of the collection in the plantation farm the Order of the CICYTEX (Center for Scientific and Technological Research of Extremadura) to request grafting material from the technical engineer Dª Margarita Lopez, but they only have one of the interesting varieties available for my collection.
Caddo
Well, less gives a stone hahahahahahaha
At least I already have three of the varieties that I need available in nurseries in Europe (Pawnee, Lakota and Kanza), and the fourth would be Caddo, not bad to start off on the right foot.
Darrel, if you see potential in any of the varieties on the CICYTEX list, tell me about it, but I think they will not be “Saint of your devotion” hahahahaha.
Your orchard is beautiful. Wanted to ask what you do for weed control? I know you don’t get much rain, but with the irrigation, I would expect some weeds. I see hardly any. Perhaps the soil isn’t conducive for producing weeds?
Here is a pic of a new area of our orchard. I’ve been mowing weeds and spraying weeds like mad, and still have a hard time keeping them under control, including using some pre-emergent herbicide. If you look at the far left of the picture, the picture captures part of a patch of pigweed which hasn’t been mowed or sprayed. It’s thick and about 3’ tall.
Hi Mark.
In my land, weeds are much worse varieties than your weeds.
In your case, weed control is tremendously easier than in my case (but in both it is easy).
The weed control method by brush cutter is very environmentally friendly, but it is not effective at all.
In orchards where the fruit trees are in a rainfed regime (without irrigation), the most convenient thing is to tillage the land 2 times a year, but it is necessary to have appropriate machinery (tractor and plows).
In fruit orchards, if there is an irrigation system, weed control involves the use of appropriate herbicides.
In irrigated plantations the land is not tilled
The first two years you will have to do two treatments per year, in successive years the grass practically disappears and the application of herbicide is minimal.
Herbicides to be used together , dates , and dosage:
At the beginning of spring, the first application is carried out with a fumigation wheelbarrow with a plastic bell to prevent the herbicide from damaging our trees and logically it is carried out on days without any wind.
This kind of bell
It is important to regulate the pump of the machine so that it works at low pressure.
The second application is made on these dates (end of June first of July)
With these two applications, we eradicate early-growing weed varieties and late-growing varieties of weeds, avoiding the spread since they do not emit their seeds.
Use these two products in combination (I indicate the active matter , since these products are found under many trademarks ):
Glyphosate 36% (one and a half liters for 100 liters of water) this is a well-known herbicide and is the best to eradicate herbs in the emerging period.
Oxiflourfen 24% (one liter of herbicide for 100 liters of water) without a doubt this is the best pre-emergent herbicide
That is, in 100 liters of water you must dilute 1.5 liters of glyphosate 36%, plus 1 liter of Oxifluorfen 24%
Some people will be against the use of herbicides, but in a fruit orchard, cleaning the land is essential (pests, fungal diseases, absorption of nutrients, etc … are avoided).
The rational use of these products, as I indicate, will take two years that you will have to make two applications and from the third year the herb will be only a mere memory, and the applications are minimal.
I will take some pictures when I go down to my population so you can see the type of weeds that grow here (most of the varieties produce a lot of allergies)
Darrell I am looking at the new varieties developed by the University of Georgia, in case apart from the Avalon variety that we already know is fantastic, there are some other interesting varieties.
All of them take too long to mature for your climate or have other flaws that would cause problems. If you look in the pollination spreadsheet, you will see details for each of them. Huffman is the best of the group for home growers with moderate production, large nuts, and good disease tolerance. Whiddon is currently thought to be the best commercial variety though with a caveat that it can overproduce.
I have Morrill, Tanner, and Huffman. They have not fruited as yet. The trees are 2 years from transplanting.
Darrell Sparks developed these varieties with crosses made about 30 years ago. IMO, he picked pretty good parents in terms of commercial potential, but not for disease resistance. Huffman’s disease tolerance is not likely to last. Scab will adapt to it in a few years at best. I will eventually try to make a cross between Adams #5 and Huffman in hopes of combining durable scab resistance with large high quality nuts from Huffman.
Huffman and Whiddon both have great characteristics, but it is of little use to graft these varieties if we still do not know if they will mature perfectly in my region.
The experiments are done with “soda”, and although I like them very much, first we will see the behavior of the varieties that we have selected so far (excellently well chosen), we are not in a hurry or thought of dying soon hahahahahaha.
I will do the plantation of pecan trees this winter with bare roots of many of the selected varieties, with a bit of luck in 3 or 4 years we will see the first fruits and from there we will be able to evaluate the suitability or not of other varieties a little late harvest .
I like your idea of hybridizing Adams # 5 x Huffman, but normally genetics tends to contribute whit the bad qualities before the good ones, so it is likely that dominance is a fruit of small size like the parenteral Adams # 5
Make a much safer bet with these types of crosses
Avalon x Huffman
Avalon x Tanner
The result is sure to be better, but even so, hybridization is a game that takes many years to see a positive result.
On Thursday if I have time I will take some pictures of some very very classic varieties of pears (varieties of the nineteenth century), and I will put them in a suitable post, surely many people will like them.
Darrell I will keep you informed since I have made the request for grafted pecan trees to two nurseries, to see if I have them available to do the plantation at the end of next winter.
Yes, small size is dominant. In a cross of Elliott X a large variety, Conner got about 1 in 60 seedlings with large nuts.
Tanner and Byrd both mature relatively early and could have potential in your climate. There is still too little known about their long term production to give a solid recommendation. What little I know so far suggests they would have problems with regular production.
I’m of the opinion that scab resistance has be be given primary consideration therefore crosses involving Avalon, Amling, Adams #5, Gafford, Kanza, Lakota, and McMillan have high potential as they all have excellent scab tolerance. Amling in particular has excellent all around disease and pest tolerance. I would love to see it crossed with one of the Schley offspring such as Sumner or Oconee. Pawnee crossed to Avalon has outstanding potential to combine early maturity with scab tolerance and excellent nut quality.
Hi again Darell.
I’m sorry I don’t participate as much in the forum as before, but I have a lot of work, and some medical problems.
I send you this message to congratulate you, since you had every reason in the world.
I explain to you.
More than 10 or 12 years ago I wanted to get involved in growing some pecan trees in my fruit orchard.
In those years there was nothing in Europe, so some friends from Mexico sent me some pecan nuts to germinate and later use as rootstock, the friend from Mexico who sent me the nuts did not know their variety, since in their population they call it a variety " Creole " .
These walnuts germinated perfectly well but every year when a little heat arrived ( not extreme heat ) , their leaves showed leaves scorch for hot , like these in the photograph :
They practically defoliated until the arrival of autumn, with milder temperatures they started new budding.
Logically this was absolutely unsuitable for use as a rootstock.
In this post you told me that the Riverside variety could be a suitable rootstock for me, and in winter I bought 10 Riverside rootstocks from the Spanish company Fruitex.
The difference is abysmal, it’s like day and night.
Riverside , in my conditions , develops absolutely " happily " , it does not have problems with calcareous terrain , even when irrigated with water with a high pH , not only does it not have problems with heat and full sun , since it enjoys high temperatures and exposure full sun .
In my region we are having the first heat wave and we have spent more than 10 days with temperatures between 43-45 degrees Celsius ( 107-113 degrees Fahrenheit ) , and unlike other varieties that stop growing with these temperatures , the Riverside pecan enjoys of this situation and increases the growth of its shoots.
On the other hand, I am observing that it tolerates soil drought much better than other rootstocks such as mirabolan 29-C.
Riverside for me is a real wonder.
I’m writing this message from my home and I don’t have pictures available, tomorrow I’ll post some pictures so you can see how they develop.
I have been reading about grafting systems for small calibers (rootstocks as thick as the little finger of the hand) and I see that the Whip and tongue grafting system with refrigerated cutting in February is very suitable. It is a technique that I dominate perfectly.
So if nothing strange happens, next February I will start with the pecan tree grafting technique.
Good to hear from you Jose. What you have seen with pecan rootstocks is interesting. Riverside is a good choice for your area as it is more tolerant of poor soil conditions. The trees that are defoliating look more like a disease called pecan scorch. Some varieties are highly tolerant while others are very susceptible.
You are correct that whip and tongue grafts work very well with pecan. However, a huge caution that you must do the very best whip and tongue grafts of your life to be successful with pecan.
Below picture is a whip and tongue graft that was made in mid-March. It has about 30 cm of new growth. The graft was made with electrical tape for a tight seal. I covered it with a loose piece of aluminum foil 5 weeks ago to prevent the graft overheating in the sun. The foil covering is required in a hot climate. Also important, a pecan rootstock must be fertilized soon after grafting to encourage rapid early growth. With a bit of work, it is possible to get a pecan graft to grow 1 to 2 meters in the first growing season.
Hi again Darrell.
All the information you give me is worth its price in gold, and I’ll explain why.
You have had the detail of indicating to me that it is necessary to cover the grafting point with aluminum foil, and I had seen on many internet pages where the grafting of pecans is explained using the whip and tongue system, where the grafting point is covered with soil ( look at image number 25 of this tutorial)
Or with aluminum foil for larger sizes, so it is very important to avoid overheating at the grafting point (this small detail that I totally didn’t know is tremendously important).
Regarding my technique to perform grafts using the Whip And Tongue system, it is the grafting system that I perform the most, the system that I like the most, and over the years I have acquired " microsurgical precision "hahahahahaha.
More than fertilizers, in this case I prefer bio-stimulants with amino acids (I use the Vegetamin Eco product from the Jisa-Jiloca company a lot) is this product:
It can be applied via irrigation every 15 or 20 days and it’s like the plutonium hahahahahahahaha, you can see how the plants grow every minute hahahahaha.
As a bio-stimulant it is fantastic and for stress problems such as drought situations, strong hailstorms, excess water, etc… it is also fantastic.
My God, I’m already like in the Nascar races ( warming up the engines hahahahahahaha ) .
Go easy on the Whip and Tongue until I explain to you why it is more “traditional” (ha-ha:) in the USA and not your pride of all Spain citizens ha-ha. The 3-flap changed the nut tree grafting industry and it’s the most valuable technique in field grafting (my opinion)… you must choose scions that are 3/8ths an inch or greater.
The whip and tongue lining up of the pecan scion “needs eyes on the inside of the union” to know fully it is aligned. The 3-flap and 4-flap techniques as well as more flaps secure the success. It’s multiple times more successful.
If you don’t use it, then it is the bark graft that you will be doing at nearly or as similarly the same excellent percentages of your grafting, Jose. This I am very strongly opinionated-about.
Barkslip, while 3flap works in your climate, I’ve had problems with it in the heat and humidity down here. The large pecan propagators in the Southeast all use whip and tongue because it is more successful than other methods. This does not mean you are wrong. It just means that climate may have a major effect on grafting success depending on how the graft is made. Also relevant, the way whip and tongue grafts are made by the pecan propagators is using a custom made knife that makes exceptionally smooth cuts.
Hi Darrell , Dax and other friends of the forum.
I am very sorry not to be able to participate in the forum more often but I am overloaded with work.
The two opinions regarding the two most used techniques for pecan tree grafting ( 4 flaps and whip and tongue ) are very interesting .
In the first place, I agree with Dax that in the 4 Flaps grafting system, the contact between cambiums is obviously tremendously greater, so it should have an impact on a higher success rate.
The Whip and Tongue grafting system, made with totally identical calibers between rootstock and cutting, obviously with good technique and adequate tool (I use the Victorinox Ecoline 39110 knife for this type of grafting, it is this knife ) :
And my technique in this grafting system is very, very refined, so I get very good results.
As I have quite a lot of Riverside rootstock, and in the winter I want to buy some more (they are extremely cheap), I will use both techniques and try to get the best possible result.
What is evident is that it is absolutely necessary to keep the graft point cool by using, for example, aluminum foil to cover it.
In some web pages I have seen that they carry out the graft using the Whip and tongue system, at a lower level of the soil, and once the graft is done, they cover it with soil to avoid precisely the heat of solar radiation.
So this point is very very important .
As I told you , my first experience in obtaining rootstock with pecan seeds native to Mexico was a real disaster because the leaves suffered strongly from leaf scoch due to the summer heat ( the young plants were totally defoliated ) , however the Riverside rootstock has opened the doors to this crop for me , since not only is it not affected by the heat , but it is happy with very high temperatures and very low environmental humidity .
As I told Dax , in my region when the temperatures are very high , even crops like the heat - loving pistachio stop their growth and stop putting out new buds , however Riverside is absolutely happy in these conditions and continues to put out new buds . sprouting , in these warm conditions , and this makes me think that I am in a suitable region for growing pecan trees .
I put some pictures of some Riverside today, with a temperature of 45º C -113º F, and as you can see they are absolutely happy, the leaves are not soft, nor do they suffer from leaf scorch problems, so if the varieties that graft on them they are so sun lovers, the success will be resounding.
Really enjoyed reading this thread. So forgive me for bumping it. Middle Georgia here, so we are in the middle of the Pecan belt. These are my thoughts, so take this with a grain of salt. We have about 75 mature trees and have planted about 80 newer cultivars. We grow most for the commercial market and have starting to sell locally. The orchard was semi neglected until a few years ago. I know a lot of people knock the older varieties and I have at times been guilty of that. But based on last year, when the top varieties are only bringing 30 cents a pound more, I’m beginning to change my mind. It’s hard to knock trees that are producing 400-500 pounds per tree.
Cape Fear, Barton, Stuart, Elliott, and Success really did well last year. Time will tell.
Buenas José! He hablado con un tal Ramón, de este vivero, y me ha dicho que no trabajan patrones. Me ha parecido muy raro, puesto que a ti si te lo han vendido. Estoy interesado también en el Riverside. Es posible que me pases el número hablar con Antonio benito? Por supuesto sería para invierno ya.
Tengo el mismo problema que tú, pH por encima de 7, veranos muy calurosos y secos (Sevilla) y un agua con un poco de sodio (no mucho tampoco).
Hi Enrique.
First of all I give you a ears tug .
I imagine that you have expressed yourself in Spanish, since the message was addressed to me, but the message is in the open forum and the least we have to do is express ourselves in English to show respect towards our fellow forum members.
As I see that you have been here for a short time, I will tell you that years ago there have been “compatriots” of ours, that is, Spaniards with very bad arts, who did a lot of damage in this forum, using the most despicable tricks, to obtain North American varieties.
Things of the type:
-Register with false pseudonyms over and over again, trying to seduce your North American colleagues, to exchange cuttings and obtain North American varieties, which is not bad so far, but the sons of bitches sent false varieties over and over again.
One of the great bastards who orchestrated this mess is a guy from Jaen, called Sebastian Lendinez Galan, who registered under different pseudonyms.
The last one he used was “Matrix”
This logically caused a lot of mistrust towards the Spanish in general (and with all the reason in the world).
For this reason , I beg you to please be as respectful as possible in this forum ( for your interest , and for the interest of the rest of the Spanish members of this community ) .
That being said , I answer your question .
Yes , as my dear friend Darrell Jones has told you , the problem of leaf scorch in your pecan trees is due to the use of an inadequate rootstock ( extensively verified by me ) .
There are several rootstocks that adapt well to soils with high Ph (Riverside is the best), but I think Lakota and Lipan also perform well (Darrell will confirm this for us).
I am going to show you some grafts made this spring of the Pawnee variety on Riverside rootstock, using the 3-flap technique.
As you can see, despite the high pH of both the substrate and the irrigation water, the pecans trees grow totally happy, stoically supporting 38-40º Celsius (100-104º Fahrenheit) of my region.
It is more than likely that the pecan tree nurseries in Spain do not sell you rootstock ( you are a newbie , and you have not earned their trust ) .
Ramon Rovira from the Fruitex nursery, produces a rootstock obtained from a selection of pecan trees native to Spain, and well adapted to soils with high Ph, but I don’t know if he will sell it to you.
There are innumerable hundred-year-old walnut trees scattered throughout Spain, planted from seeds (pecan nut) , but with small nuts of poor quality, very alternate harvest , whose origin is impossible to pin down , but they have the characteristic that they adapt well to soils with high Ph.
I don’t know where my friend Antonio buys the Riverside rootstock (I think in a nursery in the Granada area ) , I will ask him and if he gives me the information I will let you know .
Hello Jose! you’re right. I should have written in English, it won’t happen again. I’m sorry if I have disturbed anyone. I was excited to see someone Spanish here. I thank you for answering me. hopefully you find out about a Spanish nursery that sells them to newbies like me (and if they sell them grafted, much better). I have also asked in Quercus nurseries, which I suppose will sound familiar to you as well. They do sell pecans grafted on American rootstocks to amateurs, but they didn’t have any of the ones you have recommended. so if you hear any information, I will be delighted that you communicate it to me to reserve for this winter. all the best!
You are in Seville, and you have very few cold winter hours.
I think Elliot and Amling are two varieties with a low winter cold requirement.
But we’d better wait for advice from Darrell Jones, who knows perfectly the pecan varieties .
Western aka Western Schley is one of the lowest chill varieties available and is also known to set nuts from its own pollen. It can make a crop with as little as 150 chill hours. Amling to my knowledge has not been trialed in a low chill climate. Elliott point of origin is northern Mexico so it can handle relatively low chill regions. Other than these, there are very few pecans specifically selected for low chill climates. Pecans are native all the way down in Mexico to Yucatan suggesting there is plenty of germplasm that could be exploited for low chill varieties.
