Pecan varieties resistant to heat shock

General Fruit Growing
#1

Hi guys, the pecan trees is one of the varieties that I want to introduce in my fruit orchard.
A few years ago I germinated some pecan nuts in order to be later grafted with good varieties because in Europe grafted trees of selected varieties were not yet marketed (currently there are enough varieties available), but all the young plants died , due to that their leaves burned from heat stroke in summer

My problem is the following

My region is very arid, having very cold winters (I have many hours of cold, this is not the problem), but the summers are extremely hot and dry.
During the month of July and August I have temperatures of about 40-42 degrees centigrade as a daytime temperature (104-107 degrees Fahrenheit), with a practically zero humidity index, in summer my region is like Iraq hahahahaha.

This is the problem, but with European walnut varieties, which pecan walnut also suffers:

nogal

I have no problems in terms of irrigation, since I have the infrastructure to water my entire fruit orchard.

What I would like to know is:
Which varieties are best suited to regions with extremely hot and dry summers?
There would be no problem in applying micronized kaolin via foliar application to avoid dehydration, but it is much better to choose varieties that are resistant to very hot summers.

Obviously you in the United States have much more experience with this fruit variety than we do here in Europe, so I do not trust what a nurseryman can advise me, and before buying the trees, I prefer to consult with you, especially those who you live in arid southern states like Arizona, Texas, Nevada, or New Mexico.

Thank you very much in advance
Jose

Pecan walnut leafs browning
#2

Lots of pecans grown in New Mexico/Arizona. Maybe a good place to start.

https://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/pecans/index.html

#3

There are tons of pecan orchards in the South, from Georgia to Arizona. I am in North Texas and my trees are still young, but I have had no issues with Eliot, cape fear, Mayhaw, Desirable, and Pawnee all do really well for me. Candy and Kiowa seem to both get burnt leaves for me. temperature wise, we usually get the same temps in the summer (we usually get a couple days around 115F at the peak (46C)). However our humidity isn’t that low, usually 20% during the day, then 40-60% overnight.
It is certainly drier in New Mexico, when we took a road trip to Carlsbad, we found several pecan orchards around Roswell. So you shouldn’t have issues.
I assume that you know this already, but just to be sure, there are two types of pecans. Classified as Type 1 and Type 2 (very creative). You will need one of each type to get nuts. The difference is in the order that they put out male and female flowers.

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#4

There is a pecan nursery around the Dallas/Fort Worth Texas area called Womack nursery. Dallas/Fort Worth gets as hot (or hotter) as your climate, but not as dry. They grow a lot of pecan varieties. I’ve bought pecans from them before. Here’s a list of what they grow.

You mentioned you can irrigate. Pecans need lots of water. There is a saying we have here, “A pecan will grow anywhere a willow will grow.” That’s not completely true because young pecans can drown, whereas young willows can grow in a swamp. But established pecans love water.

I have a relative with an 80 acre pecan orchard, close to a river. The river floods the orchard pretty much every year, which helps the orchard. One year the river was high enough it covered the tops of some of the pecan trees during the growing season. Despite the water covering the whole trees for several days, they did not die.

Pecans are also finicky about nutrition. There are several nutritional disorders which cause leaf scorch, which could be contributing to your problem.

Pecans are also one of the rare trees which require a heavy metal as a nutrient. Although it doesn’t cause leaf scorch, pecans can show symptoms of nickel deficiency called “mouse ear”. Amazingly, the cause of mouse ear wasn’t discovered until about 20 years ago. Pecans don’t need a lot of nickel, but they can become deficient in it.

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#5

Hi Mark.
Lots of good information.
I am very clear about the pollination of the pecan walnut, which is very similar to that of the European walnut, that is, the flowering of the two varieties (Type 1 Protandrous varieties, and Type 2 Protoginas varieties) must coincide in time.

Little by little I am making a small selection of the varieties that I can grow (I am very capricious and I am not satisfied with 2 varieties, I want many more hahahaha).

Obviously I have to follow some clear criteria for the selection of varieties:

  • Good adaptability to climates with very hot and dry summers
  • Choice of suitable varieties for pollination
  • Varieties with good nut quality (if possible with very good taste quality and good walnut size)

Water for irrigation is not a problem, and I will explain why.

My business is a restaurant establishment (hotel restaurant), which is located outside the nucleus of my town that is Villarrobledo.
In Spain, the implementation of a wastewater treatment plant is mandatory in companies established outside the towns and their dirty water collectors (which go to the municipality’s purification plant), and it is mandatory that the wastewater once purified pass through a “green filter” and use it as irrigation water for trees, and in my case I use my fruit orchard as a green filter, since we generate between 12 and 18 cubic meters of water per day (12,000 -18,000 liters of water every day), for this reason I have a large fruit orchard.

Nutritional deficiencies are not an impediment either, the soil of my fruit orchard is franco-calcareous and to avoid nutritional deficiencies every year I provide two products via irrigation:

  • Ferric chelates
  • Corrector of nutritional deficiencies rich in all kinds of chelated microelements.

All these said, these are the first candidates that I like.

And please tell me if I make a mistake in the choice or if there is a variety that I should add to the collection.

  • Western Schley (Type 1)
    Combined in pollination with

  • Wichita (Type 2)

  • Desirable (Type 1)
    Combined in pollination with

  • Mahan (Type 2) there are sources that say that this variety is sensitive to frost, in my region there are winter frosts, but or not higher than - 5 to -8 degrees Celsius (23-17 degrees Fahrenheit), so I think that is a suitable variety

I like the Pawnee variety, but I still don’t know what would be the most suitable pollinator for this variety in my region.

Comments and suggestions of all kinds are accepted

Regards
Jose

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#6

I’m not familiar with growing pecans in hot environments. In our climate the colder shorter growing season and scab resistance are the most important considerations in growing pecans near Kansas City.

The 80 acre pecan orchard of relatives is also in Kansas, but in south Kansas. Our temps rarely get much over 100F in the summer. Generally there are only a handful of those days per summer. So again, heat isn’t a major consideration here.

The pecans you mentioned with the American Indian names were released by the USDA (Wichita, Pawnee). There was a USDA pecan breeding station in Chetopa Kansas. Unfortunately, they closed it down a couple years ago because of budget cuts. The USDA has released a lot of successful commercial pecan varieties over the years (all with Indian names) Lakota, Cheyenne, Shawnee, Oconee, etc.

I personally only have Kanza, Major, and Hark. Kanza is USDA release. Hark is a variety developed by our very own Dax @Barkslip here on the forum. Major is a popular pecan further south.

The favorite varieties of the relatives pecan orchard in south Kansas are Pawnee and Kanza because they both produce like crazy and have good scab resistance. But I don’t know how helpful that information would be in your climate.

Here is a bulletin for growing pecans in Kansas. Most of it wouldn’t apply to you, but there is a section on identifying symptoms of pests, which might be helpful to you.

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#7

@Fusion_power

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#8

Dax, hahahahahahaha.
Regular, you mean the choice of varieties for my terrain and climate? .
I know that you are a true specialist in the different varieties of pecan nuts.
I have been looking in the different Spanish, French and Italian nurseries, and these are the varieties that I have available for buy.
According to your criteria, which varieties of all these are more resistant to very hot and dry summers:

Mahan
Pawnee
Kiowa
Wichita
Choctaw
Western schley
Mohawk
Badour
Navaho
Cherokee
Cheyenne
Oconee
Shoshoni
Apache
Sioux
Cape fear
Kolby
Kanza
Mulluhay
Warren 346
Yachts 127
Peruque
Osage
Shawnee

Because I have a head like a drum to read on the internet so much cotradictory information.

Regards
Jose

#9

There is a problem with identifying good varieties for your area which mostly gets down to matching a variety with the climate.

Oconee should be considered.
Kiowa tends to overproduce, but can be a productive tree for the first 25 years.
Pawnee is worth considering, but only in a very dry climate.
Sioux is the only other on the list that has potential.

There are other varieties that would work in your climate, but are not in your list that can be purchased in Europe. Western Schley is a possibility, but perhaps needs too long a growing season. Wichita is similar in season requirements, also in disease susceptibility.

Mahan and Desirable would be especially poor choices as Mahan tends to overproduce and Desirable is highly disease susceptible.

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#10

Hi Fusion_power.
This afternoon she was talking on the phone with a friend who lives in Granada with a large fruit orchard like mine, about varieties of pecans suitable for our climates.
And indeed there is a parameter that I had not counted on.
They must be early or semi-early harvest varieties (not late or extra late), and now you add other interesting parameter, which is to choose disease resistant varieties.
Hahahahahahaha, I really like this kind of riddle.
It is not an easy choice and I have to read a lot of literature about the different varieties.

My friend Antonio Benito, the guy I mentioned at the beginning of this message, is related to the Spanish Fruitex nursery.
This nursery:

http://fruitex.es/pacana-carya-illioniensis

Regardless of the grafted varietal choice, this nursery has a rootstock selected for the pecan that seems to be tremendously good, so I am going to contact them for information.
The choice of pecan walnut varieties is much more difficult than the choice of European walnut varieties.

Regards
Jose

#11

I’m stretching limits quite a bit commenting given that I do not know your climate. If I read properly, your climate is highly influenced by the Mediterranean meaning your winter has very little actual cold weather. Pecans need relatively high temperatures in summer and at least 200 hours (prefer 300 or more) of temperatures below 7C. Unfortunately, I do not know of any pecan varieties that combine short season maturity in less than 180 days with low chilling hour requirements. I’ve gone over the varieties from your list again and have to add Kanza to the suggested list of varieties. It requires about 400 hours of chilling temperatures below 7C, but produces a crop in less than 180 days. There is at least a possibility it can produce a crop in your low chill climate. Also, Pawnee will have similar characteristics needing fairly high chilling hours but able to mature a crop in less than 180 days.

Which brings up one of the usual complaints when attempting to grow pecans. There are often no varieties that fully meet all the desired characteristics.

Regarding rootstocks, I have had good results using Lakota because it produces an abundance of very vigorous seedlings. I tried Kanza but have had problems because only 30% to 40% of the seedlings grow fast enough. There are other varieties recommended for rootstocks in the literature, but I have not tested them in my climate.

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#12

Hi Fusion_power.
Thank you very much for taking your interest in my future pecan plantation.
No, my climate is not Mediterranean.

This is the location of my town in the Iberian peninsula

villa
villa875Ă—591 99.2 KB

My population is located in the central plateau of Spain at an altitude of 600 meters above sea level and corresponds to a continental-type climate.
My region is characterized by being a very extreme climate both in winter and in summer, that is, we have very cold winters in the months of December, January and February (more than 1,500 - 2.000 hours of cold), and an extremely long and hot summer.
So I have no problems with the requirement of winter cold hours.
And the minimum temperatures in the winters of my region are -14 degrees Celsius (6.8 degrees Fahrenheit), only some very punctual time, and only on rare occasions, the minimum temperature of a normal year, is not lower than -8 degrees Celsius (17.6 degrees Fahrenheit), which are temperatures that pecan walnut can withstand without any problem
On the other hand, pecan is a late to very late harvest variety (early harvest varieties ripen at the end of September, and late harvest varieties at the end of November), for this reason even though I have a good enough temperature in The month of November, I prefer varieties that mature in September -October.

There is another very interesting fact, and it is that there are many varieties of pecan, which are susceptible to fungal diseases due to environmental humidity (Scab, Anthracnose, Powdery Mildew, etc …), but my region is characterized by have very little or almost no humidity in the environment, so I have no problems with this type of disease in any of my fruit varieties (for example the apple tree is susceptible to scab, I have more than 200 different varieties of apples, and none have never presented scab problem, and the same for pear trees).

I have some varieties that I like “in the spotlight” hahahahahaha, some of them are available in Europe, and some of them are not available in Europe (there will always be a charitable soul that will send me some cuttings for grafting).

For example, I love these varieties:

  • Pawnee (it is a classic cultivar)

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/pawnee.htm

This variety is unknown to me, but I think it has a lot of potential

  • Gloria Grande

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/gloriagr.htm

This is another very interesting variety , whit very large fruit

  • Mohawk

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/mohawk.htm

  • Mahan (another very classic variety)

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/mahan.htm

  • Shoshoni (this is also very good)

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/shoshoni.htm

  • Kiowa (also very large fruit)

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/kiowa.htm

Etc…

Of all the varieties there are (there are a lot of varieties), I have to preferably select the varieties with large fruit and productive harvest , and those with a paper shell due to their ease of peeling ( for me and for the birds hahahahahaha ) .

I still have to read a lot of literature, but please do not stop advising me, since you have a lot of knowledge of this fruit variety and I do not, and surely there are many parameters that escape me.

Regards
Jose

#13

Think of this in terms of advising someone on apples to grow. Would you say to grow only the largest apples? What if the largest apples don’t happen to be the most productive or the best tasting? The same is true with pecans. Take Mohawk and Mahan off of your list. They are extreme alternate bearers making a huge crop of low quality nuts one year and no nuts at all the next year. Kiowa can do the same, but it is somewhat recommended because it is a productive tree for the first 20 to 25 years. Gloria Grande has problems with kernel quality.

https://pecanbreeding.uga.edu/cultivars/alphabetical-list.html

I went through through the pollination spreadsheet to see which varieties are most likely to produce a crop in your area. Here is the short list: Avalon, Caddo, Creek, Kanza, Lakota, and Pawnee. The major concern is whether or not they can mature a crop in your area given the relatively short growing season. Pawnee and Kanza are good pollination partners and mature in the shortest season.

If you have Microsoft Excel, please pull a copy of the pecan pollination sheet. It will save a lot of time figuring out details about specific varieties. Pecan pollination chart

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#14

Darrel, I have to admit that you are more right than a Saint.
Damn it, when I see large varieties in size of fruit on the internet (really unaware of their agronomic behavior), my head fills with birds, and it clouds my good judgment.

What is the use of planting trees of a variety that is attractive to the eye because of their size, if later the tree is unproductive, the nut is of poor taste quality, and it is attacked by all existing and future diseases.
The pollination spreadsheet is tremendously useful (thank you very much for giving me the link)

I have to look from another perspective, (My friend Dax made the same kind of recommendations as you)

Dax highly recommended this variety to me

  • Fisher (has a maturity date similar to Pawnee)

https://cgru.usda.gov/CARYA/PECANS/fisher.htm

And right now, my criteria are changed.

At the moment these varieties are safe

  • Pawnee, Lakota and Kanza and Caddo (it is a perfect tandem in pollination).

My friend Antonio Benito, does he have these varieties in his orchard , do you like any of them?

JAMES EARLY, SIOUX, MANDAN, PAWNEE (we know that this variety is suitable), CHEROKEE, OSAGE, MOHAWK, CAPE FEAR and WICHITA

Regards
Jose

#15

Of those varieties,
James Early is very small at 104 nuts per pound, not recommended
Sioux is a possibility but others are better
Mandan has similar issues as Sioux
Cherokee overbears, has problems with nuts darkening, and other growing problems
Osage is a small nut on a productive tree, but not generally recommended
Mohawk is a huge nut on a tree that overbears, not recommended anywhere
Cape Fear matures too late
and Wichita matures too late, overbears, and is disease susceptible

From those varieties, I would suggest only Pawnee, Sioux, and possibly Mandan. As stated earlier, there are much better alternatives with the single exception of Pawnee. Keep in mind that Pawnee is scab susceptible, but in a dry climate such as yours it would not be an issue. I can’t grow Pawnee here where I live without extensive antifungal sprays. If sprayed, Pawnee is one of the best varieties to grow for this region.

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#16

Darrell, I’ve been reading about the Avalon variety for several days.
It is an incredible variety, it has practically all the positive qualities that a pecan variety can have (it is really impressive), it also has good cross-pollination compatibility with Pawnee (in both ways, pollen shed and receptivity).
I very much doubt that I can find a more suitable variety than Avalon for my edaphoclimatic conditions.

Caddo, Creek and Lakota are very good, but Avalon is a champion.

You have sincerely impressed me.

I have to do a good preparation of the land before planting the trees that will be sent to me from the nursery in winter, to adapt it as much as possible both in pH and in nutritional elements to the requirement of the pecan tree.

From the nursery they will send me the Kanza, Pawnee and Lakota varieties grafted , and some rootstocks
A friend from Germany has the Fisher variety (a very young tree), and Mandan I would like to graft these two varieties.

Darrell I know that Kanza is a good pollinator for Mandan, but I can’t find anywhere which is the right pollinator for the Fisher variety (this variety does not appear in the pollination charts, and there is no information about its pollinators on the internet) Fisher mature at same time as Lucas ( around September 10 -15 ) , but what is your best pollinator? .

Avalon is not logically available in Europe, it is the ideal variety for me, but I have to find a friend who has this variety to be able to graft it.

Regards
Jose

#17

I am looking at your climate… How much precipitation do you get? It looks very dry…
My temperatures are similar to yours, hot summer and cold winter, zone 6 with similar growing season near wichita kansas we get lots of heat, drought, wind, intense sunshine, and i have been reading the ones i am choosing for here in kansas are Hark, Pawnee, Shephard, (and maybe Major), for type 1, for type 2 Kanza, Surecrop, Oswego.
But we might get more rain than you? Is your property dry, or down in a creek bottom? Pecans like water. We are dry but we get 27 inches yearly and more in spring than in fall, and i am in a creek bottom with more moisture.
Here is info from a grower in kansas, his info may benefit you, look up what he has to say on each type, kansas is a fairly harsh climate too:

But you are such a dry climate, dry is my concern, if you are not in a moist creekbottom with above average moisture, it will take forever for your tree to grow, i might would just grow Javids Iranian Almond or sweet pit apricots like Mormon or Montrose.

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#18

Fisher is similar to Pawnee in pollination characteristics. The reference I have is a book from Wes Rice. Dax may be able to get more info. I’m pretty sure Gary Fernald has Fisher as a mature tree.

Grafting pecans is difficult to very difficult. I recommend getting a rootstock established then grafting it next year. With due diligence, you can use a whip and tongue graft or a cleft graft with reasonably good success.

Avalon’s parents are Gloria Grande and Caddo. It gets disease tolerance from Gloria Grande and outstanding nut quality from Caddo.

PaulinK, if you read above, Jose irrigates using wastewater.

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#19

Hi Paul.
In my region the climate is quite dry with little rainfall (null in the summer months, July, August and September), but this does not mean that I do not have water, since I have a very important water supply, and canalization of irrigation in all my fruit orchard.
I can grow all kinds of fruit varieties, except varieties that do not tolerate extreme sun and chalky soil (for example kiwi due to environmental dryness and scorching sun suffers from leaf scorch, chestnut due to high pH problems), and a little more .
The rest of the crops bear excellent fruit in my garden.

What varieties do I have in my orchard ?
Almost everything, in many varieties by fruit genus, and all of the highest quality.

  • Peaches ( with red skin and white and yellow flesh, such as Pavias, the type of peach that you there call "cling peach"in the USA )
  • Infinity of varieties of flat peaches
  • Infinity of varieties of apricots
  • Infinity of varieties of pluots
  • Infinity of varieties of cherry trees
  • Infinity of nectarine varieties
  • Infinity of varieties of plum trees (both Japanese, European, and hybrid varieties)
  • Infinity of varieties of persimmons
  • Infinity of pistachio varieties
  • Infinity of varieties of trellised apples (I have some classic varieties, but most of the collection are varieties of excellent quality recently obtained)
  • Infinity of varieties of pears (both very classic French and Belgian varieties, obtained in the 18th and 19th centuries, as well as the most innovative varieties recently obtained).

Etc…

All this obviously cannot be grown without a good water support system (in my case the irrigation is automated).

As I mentioned at the beginning, due to the wastewater treatment station of my business (located next to my fruit orchard), I have all the necessary irrigation water.

For this reason initially ( and mistakenly), I was struck by the varieties of pecan whit large size of fruits.
But after reading and reading a lot, I have seen that I was totally wrong.
It is much more interesting to select varieties that meet these parameters:

  • Very productive varieties in the short and long term
  • Varieties resistant to fungal diseases
  • Early to mid harvest season varieties (never late maturing varieties)
  • Varieties with good taste qualities
  • Make a good varietal choice based on its pollination (group and dates of of sending and receiving pollen )
  • If after all this, a variety of good size fruit enters the group “it is very well welcome”

Darrell, thank you so much for letting me know about Fisher’s pollinator.

It is more than likely that I will have to request help from one of you, to send me cuttings of some good varieties for grafting, because they not will be available in Europe, and my objective is not commercial exploitation but simply to have one or two trees of each variety in my orchard, for family consumption.

Today it is raining precisely (a small summer storm), tomorrow when it will be sunny I want to take some pictures, so that you can see what my fruit orchard is like.
Darrell , "YES " hahahahahahaha, I know perfectly well that the grafting of pecan walnut is not a road of roses.
I have faced many times with such difficulties both in the grafting of the European Walnut, as well as in the grafting of the pistachio (the grafting of the varieties of pistachio on rootstock Pistacea terebinthus , is also quite delicate).

There is a lot of information regarding the grafting systems of pecan walnut, both with large-caliber rootstock, and in young seedlings of 2 to 3 years.

I have quite a lot of experience grafting (discarded cleft graft, I hate this grafting system due to poor union between rootstock and grafted variety).
I like much more systems such as whip and tongue, Patch budding with parallel knife, and especially the chip budding system with forced temperature, this last system gives excellent results in European walnut in young rootstocks of 2 years.

There is not much information about this pot grafting system for pecan walnut and I am sure it is a system that you will like a lot.

This article is from my friend Olivier, it is in French but you will have no problem making a “half decent” translation into English.

https://www.greffer.net/?p=719

And this is an article of mine regarding the grafting of pistachio in winter at forced temperature (it is also in French, but it is very easy to translate)

https://www.greffer.net/?p=793

Darrell, reading about the parenterals of Avalon (Gloria Grande and Caddo), reminds me a lot of a joke that is told a lot in my region, but they were not so successful in the crossing hahahahahaha.

This is the anecdotal joke:

There were two friends in a small town, who were peasants and lived by cultivating the land.
To till the land, one of the two friends had a mare that was very large in size and very strong, but tremendously coward and lazy, and the other friend had a small donkey, very weak, but tremendously brave and hard-working.
One day talking, the two friends decided to cross their two animals, in order to obtain a fantastic result, that is, a mule of great size and strength like the mare, and brave and hardworking like the little donkey.
But what they got was a mule of small size and weak like the donkey, and lazy and cowardly like the mare hahahahahahahahaha .
The crosses do not always go as one expects hahahahahahaha .

Tomorrow if there is sun I will show you some photographs of my orchard, and I think you will see how it is suitable for growing pecan.

Regards
Jose

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#20

Thanks Paul for mentioning that.

I have a question for the group. In my yard where my house is, I have only a couple pecan trees. One is a Major, and the other a wild seedling. About a month ago I grafted the wild seedling over to Hark (from a Hark tree planted at the orchard).

Here is a picture of the graft I took last week.

KIMG1038
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Here’s the problem. For some reason I was thinking Hark was a type 2 pollenizer, which is what the other Major tree in my yard needs. I just now realized my mistake.

The Major tree has produced pecans the last couple years without any identifiable pollenizer in the area. Obviously it’s going to be more productive with a suitable pollenizer close by. In my yard I also have a shagbark hickory (Grainger variety)

I know it’s possible for cross pollination between some hickories and pecans. Is it possible for Grainger to pollenize a type 1 pecan?

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