Permaculture successes and failures?

If anyone else here considers themselves a permaculturist, it might be fun to share what has worked for us… and what has not.

The reason I am lying on a heating pad right now? Because I read in numerous places to grow berries with the fruit trees. I was too smart to put thorned fruit with anything I’d be working a lot, pruning, thinning, and picking. But I planted dozens of blueberries on the north side of apple trees. I pulled them all out and replanted many of them today. Blueberries like much more acid soil than apples do, and they were clearly suffering.

Next? To remove and replant kiwis. Yay, me!

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On the other hand, nitrogen fixing berries do well with fruit trees.

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So far, I’m pretty happy with what I’ve done, but I had the “Winter of Covid” to plan and dream and order things. I find it easier to plan when the ground is snow covered–it’s literally a blank slate without distractions. Lots of sketches and maps and charts were made looking out of my upstairs bedroom window. I have a lot of the permaculture garden bordering the sidewalk and driveway out front. I did this for multiple reasons. First and foremost, it has southern exposure. Also, the sidewalk and driveway act as natural barriers.

Originally, I was looking for ways to stop all of my neighbors’ leaves from ending up on my yard…funny how I now covet those leaves and actively volunteer to sweep them up with a leaf sweeper pulled behind my mower! But I digress! Another reason for putting it out there was to educate the public. My road is actually a state highway so many people go by every day and the sidewalks are always busy with pedestrians.

Because of that, it was a priority to make it attractive and not look like a weedy mess. There were so many considerations, like people walking dogs and them peeing and pooping–not all pick up the poop, either, although most do. Probably about three feet south of the sidewalk, I planted over 120’ of Regent serviceberries and then all sorts of pretty perennials in front of them. (I only pick the berries above the pee zone, leaving the rest for the birds!) Being the perennials aren’t really edible, dogs can pee all they want and I don’t have to get upset. They are natives and attract a lot of good insects, while offering a riot of color and filling up space.

On the corner where the driveway crosses the sidewalk, I have many herbs. They tend to like it drier, and it’s no hardship to offer my neighbors to pick what they want from that area. Behind the serviceberry shrubs, I have a length of asparagus. I’d ordered 50 crowns, and now that three years have come and gone, I can harvest freely. I have frozen quite a bit and plan to do some pickling and canning of more asparagus this year. I put the asparagus there so that the Regent serviceberries would help support the ferny upright growth and to kind of hide it as it’s growing, because, let’s face it, it is a very phallic looking plant and not really attractive in the spring! Once it ferns, it offers considerable privacy which is lovely, but I have to admit, I didn’t expect those ferns to grow to be over 7’ tall…

Behind all of that I have a large varieties of fruiting trees and shrubs. On the inside border between garden and lawn, I’ve line it with hosta for ease of mowing and a clear delineation. I have strawberries as my groundcover, and they have filled in completely! Being it is such a long expanse, I put a black metal arbor halfway and have climbing pink roses on it, as a nod to my mom who loved roses. I planted one that is considered nearly thornless because of people coming through to visit me on my front porch. I have various bulbs and flowers interspersed throughout–garlic and daffs keep the moles out, and yarrow, catmint and the like attract beneficial insects.

I wouldn’t consider it a mistake because I don’t have to weed or “chop and drop” but because the strawberries have filled in so thoroughly, I feel like I’m playing Twister when I go out to pick! I’ll be 65 this September, so I really have to make a conscious effort to be careful! I plan to transplant some out back, and it’s lovely to be able to offer them to anyone who wants some babies. I have enough strawberries that I have 1-2 cups every morning year round and still have leftovers come spring! I think I have about 20 quarts still in the freezer and its March 7th today.

It’s been fun to watch as new fruit “come on line” and each year my repertoire grows. Because of all that I grow (50+ kinds of fruits, nuts and perennial veggies) it has forced me into all sorts of new knowledge from herbalism to fermenting, dehydrating and canning to wine making, say nothing of new techniques of pruning and propagating. I find the fruit so beautiful, whether in blossom or laden with colorful fruit. I am so glad I started, after all, the best time to plant a tree was seven years ago!

I am always taken aback by how long it takes to harvest and process the food. Picking, hulling and bagging strawberries can take a few hours every day, and they produce from May until November most years, but it is so well worth it. I have 40 blueberry bushes and it’s been a great way to visit with friends. They get to take whatever they pick, which makes it a relief for me. I pick as well and get more than enough so that I can donate to the local food bank or just bring some to elderly friends and neighbors.

So, I guess that leads to my next piece of advice; plant more than you will use so that you can be generous toward your neighbors and the wildlife without getting upset! Also, plant so that your fruit covers a wide span of time in the calendar year–there’s no way that you can process everything at once. I start with rhubarb, asparagus, honeyberries and strawberries, and close out the year with persimmons, Concord grapes, pawpaws, quince, nuts and medlars, with all sorts of good stuff in between!

As I said, I’d made many sketches and charts. I charted fruiting times, years to bear, ultimate size, light, soil and water requirements, thorns or not–often a dealbreaker, and whether or not they suckered–another potential dealbreaker! Having this info helped tremendously when I was planning my planting map. Using grid paper kept me honest!

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Great, detailed response! Yes,strawberries, if they’re happy, can take over. I gave 25 runners to a guy who helps my mom, 80 to the new neighbors, and still have more I potted up to give away. I’m kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I ran out of energy (also getting older, still working off farm) and threw some plants, roots and all, on top of other plants like mulch.

How do you use your service berries?

I also ordered 22 benchgrafts from someone I respected and liked very much, whose NorCal orchard weather resembles mine. Most turned out to be disease prone heritage apples on Bud 9 in my lower orchard. I’ve been yanking them out ever since. Some of them also grew into weird shapes, with 4 “central leaders” coming out of the grafting union. I waited to get fruit before cutting back to be sure some of those “leaders” weren’t rootstock. I never told him of any of my issues with his trees, though few of them remain at my place, because he gave me a lot of friendly advice that turned out to be good. I wished I had ever made it to his place to bring him some apple cake and talk with him in person. (RIP Ram.)

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I find that my serviceberries are kind of insipid tasting. I find that they are also very sweet, so I mix them in with fruit like strawberries or blueberries to act like sugar without having to add any sugar. As a general rule, I try to keep simple carbs to a minimum if at all, so I don’t have bread very often, it’s more of a treat every once in a while. Because of that, I don’t have jams or jellies either. I really try to avoid sugar at all cost.

But back to the serviceberries. I’m not fanatical about picking them. I pick what I can each day, and pop them in the freezer, but really, I just find them beautiful, from blossom to the changing colors of the fruit. I love the florescent pink berries and how they change to purple and blue and black–all at the same time. I find it’s just a beautiful shrub border that offers a little privacy and acts like a barrier. I also don’t mind the birds eating what they want. They usually concentrate on the berries near the ground that I don’t want to have to bend over to get. In that way, it’s kind of a decoy plant. They hop around inside them leaving fertilizer as a trade and then they leave the other fruit alone. They clean up a lot of the bugs and caterpillars, too.

What a shame about your apple trees; there is a lot of time invested in growing them. I found that a Stella cherry I have is suffering from brown rot. Yesterday was the first chance we’ve had to get out and do anything. It has been below 40 degrees since early November and the ground has been covered in feet of snow. I went around and pruned yesterday (still more to do!) and today, although it may be late, I plan to go out with some dormant oil and copper spray. These are the first few days in the 50’s without rain in the forecast. I had waited six years for cherries only to have the entire tree covered in fungus last year. I’m hoping I can salvage it.

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Im not sure what im doing is permaculture. Im introducing plants and trees from all over the world. For at least another few years im going to let nature take hold and i will see what things need nurture. I am not claiming success at any of it but i really enjoy the goings on of nature vastly more than making work where work wasnt entirely needed. Not mowing in various areas and spreading seeds of local things that benefit beneficials has been very rewarding from a visual aspect.

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We have wild serviceberries here, but they’re growing on a poison oak covered hill that I havent fenced yet for goat patrol, so I haven’t tasted any. I bought 2 named cultivars (one is Regent… don’t remember the other) this year so I can plant them somewhere more hospitable. I love the flowers!

I find it interesting to know there are several low carbers here, me included. Fruit is ok for me, as long as it’s whole. I was heavy and prediabetic not that long ago. Now I’m not! So I am starting to focus on small apple flavor bombs.

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Have you read Mark Sheppard’s Restoration Agriculture? He uses the STUN method-sheer total utter neglect. Of course, he has interns and employees to plant 6 times what he needs and let stuff die. If I neglected more than I do, it would be a disaster.

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I just spent more time than I should have reading about medlar and how in many cultures it is used medicinally for many things. The findings around diabetes is pretty remarkable. I, too, am hovering in the range of pre-diabetes and want to do what I can to prevent it from developing into a full-blown case. Here is one such article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590157524002219#f0005

More and more, I’m finding U have a great interest and curiosity around the connection between the fruit that I grow and the health benefits it provides. I am having to adjust a lifetime of thinking that fruit=sugar=disease. I’m newly amazed every time I read about how beneficial fruit is in fighting so many diseases.

Back to serviceberries…Something I hadn’t considered with my Regents is that they do sucker…which I should have guessed, because I’ve had an Autumn Brilliance serviceberry out front for a number of years and it suckers. It’s not terrible, but it is a tree form so I do cut those back. I can go out with pruners once a year and cut them back quite easily. Had I known, I could have saved a bundle by just getting a one or two plants and then removing the suckers to create new plants. I had gotten a few larger specimens along with basically sticks (someone else’s suckers?) and planted them all in a row. Amazingly, by the end of the first season, they were all pretty much the same size! Here’s the image that convinced me to plant them out front:
Regent Serviceberry | Plant Addicts I find them just as pretty, if not more so, in fruit.

I’ve read about the STUN concept, but I, too, can’t not just let things go too much being the big garden is out front right on a main road, although, I have to say, last year I did very little as far as weeding and maintenance goes. I planted tight and the strawberries as a groundcover really worked their magic. I didn’t even have to water but once, and even then, I don’t know how necessary that was.

This past fall, I did add a fair amount of mulched leaves. I feel like I need to replenish the mass that I’ve removed in fruit! I do do the chop and drop. I have hosta lining the garden on the house side. They look tidy while providing a pretty impenetrable border between lawn and garden, although I can’t stand the look of the flower stalks when they start to fall every which way. The bees love them, so I leave them as long as I can, but then I cut those stalks back and just put them right back under the leaves of the hosta…out of sight, out of mind!

I’m glad I couldn’t get the plant addicts site to load tonight! Sounds like exactly the kind of place I need to stay away from. :rofl:

Your place sounds lovely! Maybe take a few pix of flowers?

Ha! I just tried the link and it worked fine…usually, it’s me who can’t get things to load; you sound like a kindred spirit! I’ve avoided uploading pics because I don’t know how. I’ll try, but not for too long. Right now, on the north side of every structure, we still have a few feet of snow; where there isn’t snow it’s mud. Here in Vermont, we have a fifth season known as mud season. Everything is brown and dead looking…that’s why I find it so important to have early bulbs like snowdrops and lots of evergreens interspersed. Usually, the snowdrops are up and blooming in mid February, but we had such a constant snow cover–no bare ground since mid November, that they are just emerging now, a full month after they are usually up. But, boy, once it starts, it’s a fast and furious riot of color and growth. Spring is like a rambunctious teenager! I’ve been hearing spring birds, and I woke to a skunk that had sprayed, so I know it’s right around the corner.


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For context, here’s a picture from June "21! You can more clearly make out the hosta on the inside curve, the line of asparagus and maybe the serviceberries in front of them. The apple trees, etc. are all just sticks. Fortunately, the far “woodland” section, I had done a number of years ago, as you can see by the mature dogwood, viburnum and such. Back then, I’d removed all of the grass by cutting little squares and shaking off the dirt. For the front garden, I got smart and rented a sod cutter. A lovely neighbor up the street volunteered to operate it for me. He didn’t have to ask me twice!

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Pretty house and garden! Yeah, if I lived there, I’d be proud of my handiwork, too!
I live on the other side of a town with maybe 900 people, and my internet connection is poor. Sometimes I sneak a peak at this forum and garden sites from work where the internet is good. Please don’t tell anyone because they think I’m very responsible. (Today I ordered a pallet of 5 gallon buckets to drill holes in and use as pots. I only NEED 10, so maybe I’m not so responsible.)
I live where the seasons are: thank God it’s finally raining, raining, still freaking raining, and on fire. Our mud season lasts 6 months. And then overnight everything has grown 6”.

Wow, that’s a LOT of growth in 4 years, not even! I may have to check out those mechanical sod cutters. I have an Amish sod cutter that is human foot powered and it wears me out.

I turned a vacant lot I own into the start of what will one day be an apple orchard during 2023/2024. I read up and attempted some permaculture techniques in the design (done, as Barb said above, during winter when snow covered everything). It’s all worked to some degree, but I ended up with many adaptations. We’ll see what it looks like when the apple trees are really producing in 5-15 years.

Basic concepts were:
2023:
Apple trees… mostly on A.313, B.118, and P.18 as, with our weather, we really need standard trees… but with an extra layer over dwarf trees so I might see some apples in this decade. 2023 was incredibly rainy and my soil is thin and on top of ledge (rock) so everything became incredibly soggy as there’s no way for water to drain as some of the rock underneath basically form pools with soil on top. I lost about a third of the trees I planted.

I planted goumis around the edges of the apple tree rows to provide some nitrogen fixing and fruit. A bunch of these arrived in January (thanks Ison’s for timing that so well sarcasm) and my ground was frozen until April, so those sticks that were stuck in the fridge for four months didn’t have a great success rate. But the other ones and the ones that survived are absolutely thriving and loving it. I’ve planted some more (it’s always difficult to find goumis in quantity, especially anything other than Sweet Scarlet, so it’s taken years to source).

I planed honeyberries in between the apple trees in rows as they can handle the shade (and will benefit from shade in the height of summer, in fact) when the trees get bigger. They’re generally doing OK, but not great.

I put down a layer of wildflower seeds – some nitrogen fixers in there – around everything… keeping the flower heights low enough that they won’t cause problems for the trees or shrubs. Nearly none of them came up, though, as, after cutting down the old native trees to create the orchard, grass ended up springing up everywhere and crowding everything out. Such is life.

I put up deer fencing to protect everything, but I’d eventually like to make it a vegetative barrier rather than ugly plastic fencing. I planted a bunch of white Nanking cherries in a closely spaced row on one side of the orchard; a bunch of elderberries in a closely-spaced row on the other side; a bunch of cinderblock planters (cheapest material I could find) for raspberries/blackberries on one side of the orchard; and a row of closely-spaced blueberries in the final side of the orchard. All are doing OK. The cherries are surviving, but growing slowly; the elderberries are all living with some really thriving, but it’s early days; I haven’t had time to transplant the raspberries/blackberries from grow bags into the new planters yet; and the blueberries are doing OK. Definitely a work in progress.

2024:
I replaced all of the apple trees that died in the wet 2023 with replacement trees. This time, I took a few measures to prevent them from rotting in the wet conditions. First, we put down a ton of wood mulch to soak up some of the moisture. I then put down cardboard (no end of cardboard packing materials in my household!). I then built up mounds with new quality soil on top with about 24" of soil above the base elevation (now compacted down to about 18"). And I planted the apple trees in that. I figure they’ll get established in the dryer soil and, by the time they find their way down, hopefully they’ll be able to cope with water that can be relatively high when it gets wet. 2024 was a fairly dry year, so I don’t really know how they did.

I also surrounded the apple ‘mounds’ as we’ve called them with a combination of aronias (spaced in a circle a few feet out from the mound) and cranberries (spaced in between). Both are perfectly happy with wet soil conditions and they effectively soak up the moisture to make the boggy parts of the orchard less boggy. Those plants seemed to thrive last year, but it’s hard to tell for sure.

I also looked at my lovely perfect soil apple mounds and thought, before the weeds started to take hold, I should plant something there. I bought up a bunch of strawberries and planted them in the mounds. Most of them really took off and, even though they were planted in May/June, we were still getting a banner harvest off the everbearing strawberries in October. As expected, they sent out runners so parts of the mounds are now completely filled with strawberry plants helping to prevent the weeds from spreading.

I also put metal trellis gates around the edge of the orchard to allow access through the eventual (hopefully) vegetative barrier for humans and not deer. I planted grapes to grow up the trellises. They did OK last year, but, from what I’ve seen elsewhere in my yard, it really takes until the second and third year for them to take off. I also planted peas around the grapes as I wanted to eat some peas and figured having nitrogen fixers there would help the grapes. The peas grew quickly and worked perfectly… until our local groundhog figured out where they were.

Finally, after testing soil in mid-2023, after I’d done most of my planting, I discovered that my native soil was around 5.5 pH. It seems like the apples, goumis, honeyberries, elderberries, cherries, etc. will all grow in that pH even though they’d like it higher, but I did add a bit of lime to raise pH around the non-mound apple trees. But, with that pH, I can also grow blueberries natively without soil amendment, so I added a ton of additional blueberry bushes to a steep slope above the orchard that’s all sand. So far, so good.

I have a few other tricks, but that’s more than enough writing (and reading) for now. It’s been an adventure and I’m sure it’ll continue to be an adventure.

Many thanks to Hartmann’s, too, as it’s really easy to buy a ton of X from them when I’m trying to build vegetative barriers or to fill in soggy portions of my orchard. It’s not hard to meet the wholesale minimums that way and prices are incredibly low compared to retail nurseries (5x to 20x higher prices). But that only works if you’re filling in a large area and it’s a product they sell (i.e., not goumis!).

Final note: I’ve tried growing serviceberries (or juneberries as we try to call them – less morbid that way) and they just hate us. I read somewhere that there isn’t a disease or pest that doesn’t love juneberries and that’s been my experience. I don’t know what it is, but everything seems to attack them around our area. I’ve had great success with aronias, elderberries, strawberries (of course), but I’ve basically given up on juneberries at this stage. The only threat I’ve found for elderberries is the aformentioned groundhog who loves to eat them to the ground… fortunately for me (and him), they like being pruned down to the ground, so they continue to grow back nicely every year.

But my conclusion is elderberries and goumis love my environment.

Apologies for the long, long post.

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The sod cutter was amazing; it cuts as fast as you walk, so the whole area was done in maybe two hours? It wasn’t cheap to rent and have delivered, but it would have taken me all summer to do by hand! Funny, I’d looked into the Amish type and thought that it would be exhausting. I’ve shrunk over the years, so I’m not even 5’ tall, and everything seems to be built for a 6’ person. I have a snow sleigh/pusher and if it gets hung up and I’m still moving forward, it practically decapitates me!

Yeah, my town is probably not even 900; it’s basically the state highway road going through. My cable is horrible, too. Let me guess, Comcast?!

Believe it or not, that garden has 3 apple trees, 50 asparagus crowns, innumerable strawberries (started with 50 crowns; 25 per side) that completely cover the ground, a medlar tree, numerous currants: pink, black, white and red plus a clove currant and jostaberry, lingonberries, 3 paw paw, 2 persimmon, a medlar, 2 gooseberry, a cherry, 4 honeyberry, two figs, all sorts of herbs, 2 rhubarb, garlic, and aronia. Oh, yeah, 30 or so serviceberries! It’s been really fun as each year, more plants have matured enough to produce fruit. As it is, my freezer is still pretty packed with strawberries and blueberries (I have 40 blueberry bushes out back.)

This “dilemma” has pushed me to learn about many food preservation techniques. This past year, I canned some pears, blueberries, grape juice and quince and invested in a fair-sized dehydrator. I can’t wait to have enough apples to make apple rings. (Right now, I’m mainly using it to make yogurt by the gallon!) I had gotten a steam juicer for the grape juice and eventually the Cornelian cherries and other fruits.

This winter, I ordered some goji berry plants, which I’ve heard can be disgusting raw, but I’d gotten some dried from the local co-op to taste, and I love/crave them that way. It’s a good thing we have long winters, because I’ve spent a great deal of time trying to decide where I will put the plants. (They can easily be quite wild looking, so it’s my intention to cut them back each year.) I will put one between my two heartnuts out back (south-facing) and the other nearby by a pawpaw and pear tree. Once they start to produce, I can pop them into the dehydrator and save a fortune; they are really expensive to buy!

It is shocking for me to see how all of those sticks are growing into respectable plants and trees. I think the first pics was only three years in. The bottom picture was one full year in; they had come through the winter and this would have been their second year. The asparagus and hosta were visible along with some of the Regent (and one Autumn Brilliance) serviceberries, and you can see a tiny pawpaw with a stick beside it! You can see how few and far between the strawberries were, too. (All of the hosta was from two plants that I had divided up and planted as a border. I use it to edge most gardens because it grows so densely and is so easy to mow against. It really creates a very clear dividing line that doesn’t misbehave like some comfrey can, and it stays relatively small. I love how the leaves stay perky and underneath there is bare soil. Some brave Creeping Charlie sneaks by, but it is usually pretty manageable.) I am doing the “Grow a Little Fruit Tree” method 1. so I can fit it all in and, 2. it’s just me here and how much do I really need?! My one rule when planting was that I wanted well-behaved plants out there that didn’t require crazy amounts of maintenance. I don’t want to be on display out there, all hot and sweaty. It’s bad enough when I have to go play “Twister” while picking the strawberries! My unruly plants (and everything else) are out back: things like elderberry, hazelnuts or kiwi or even grapes that require a bit more. I had started with some mulberries in front, but then I read that the roots can lead to problems, so before they were of any size, they, too, were transplanted out back, even though they are Gerardi Dwarf. I didn’t need my driveway, sidewalk or septic damaged.

I’m sure some of my neighbors think it’s weird; those are the ones who walk by without making eye contact or acknowledging my (or the garden’s) presence at all (!) but most are very complimentary and have said things like, “I never thought of growing asparagus until I saw yours!” I love to have enough that I can give a bit away. When I give someone a quart of strawberries or a bunch of asparagus, I’ve made a friend for life! I also love bringing food to the food shelf when I’m heading to town anyway. The cost of fresh produce is exorbitant yet so necessary for good health, and it makes me feel like I am making a positive difference.

I try to be an ambassador for the benefits of permaculture on wildlife and soil (and people) health as well as its ethics and principals. In these few short years, I know of at least three people (now friends) who have converted their traditional gardens to permaculture gardens after seeing that it’s not a either/or situation as far as beauty. It’s an “and” situation! You can have beauty, AND food AND wildlife AND no chemicals or added chemical fertilizers AND it’s so much healthier AND it’s so much easier! It definitely takes work up front: looking at these pictures reminds me as to why I had to spend hours every other day watering, but looking at it growing, I realize all of the benefits. Yes, I prune the trees…but that’s about it, except for harvesting the food it gives me. It offers some privacy when I’m sitting on the front porch and I love seeing so many more butterflies, birds and other insects that help the interdependence of life.

The highlight was waking up one early morning and seeing a fox come through the arbor. It was stunning. It will help balance the chipmunk population and is welcome here! My land is coming alive. I see lightning bugs again and I’m hoping that bats will reappear. I realized that I used to see them every night as evening fell, but I haven’t seen them in about ten years. It was like the changing of the guard; swallows and martins would be there, and then suddenly, without missing a beat, they’d be gone and bats would’ve taken their spot. They scare me a little, but I know that they have an important niche and will help keep the mosquito population in check. I haven’t seen martins or swallows for about a decade either. Sometimes I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle, but I won’t give up without a fight!

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One of my failures was black locust next to the vegetable garden.
Put it where you can mow down the seedlings that will FOR SURE pop up. It will spread. Not good for the vegetable garden.

Another early one was believing mulch was the magic answer for everything, to the point of not watering anywhere near as much as I needed to.

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@Barb Thank you so much for your descriptive posts. I started planting during COVID as well, but I didn’t read a gardening book first and we had 2 years of drought. I’m way behind you. I’m currently reading The Fruit Gardener’s Bible, 2011 edition. This author was using the fashion of planting trees so their “mature” height just touches, which means semidwarfs would require a ladder to pick fruit 12’ from the ground. I’m wondering if I top off the semidwarfs at “arms overhead reach” height, can I just space them 9’ apart instead of 12’ ?

Since you are in Zone 5 and growing similar plants to my Zone 4, I was wondering if you could check my work on a plotting out the fruiting times to see if I missed anything that would have included?

The link is at:

What a wonderful list! Isn’t it grand to have so much available to us?! To figure out what I wanted to grow, I had three or so basic sources: 1. Practical Self-Reliance website, especially this link: 60+ Unique Fruits & Nuts for Cold Climates (Zones 3-5) — Practical Self Reliance
Her website is where I went when I first made wine, salves and tinctures. She doesn’t ever overly complicate things while being very safety-minded. I’ve never not had success with her advice.
2. I have lots of permaculture books, but as far as zooming in on what I wanted to grow, these two or three were particularly helpful because they gave an honest assessment of the plant as far as behavior, size, and care. A.) Martin Crawford’s Trees (and Shrubs–another of his books) for Gardens, orchards and Permaculture B.) Allyson Levy and Scott Serrano’s Cold-Hardy Fruits and Nuts (On the Flock website, there is a video that is quite lengthy where their gardens are toured and they talk a bit about their plants and you can see them in situ, seeing sizes and light requirements was very helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh8biKgTWB4&list=PLCkOPTcaMQ3BtDjTGNnuesTLVhk1NXBP5&index=2&t=1s There is also a part two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTdkP8-LSFY&list=PLCkOPTcaMQ3BtDjTGNnuesTLVhk1NXBP5&index=1
3. Dani Baker’s The Home-Scale Forest Garden–She talks a lot about mistakes made, which I appreciated.
I’m sure your library might carry them or could get them through Inter-library loan. I found I kept checking them out and soon realized that I wanted to always have them around. I reference all of these sources over and over. I also find it helpful to check multiple sources to compare information. Many times most of it aligns, but sometimes it doesn’t and that forces me to keep reading…or one book will mention something that others don’t…like if a plant runs or has thorns or smells badly…you get the idea!
I’m sure you could even get on Amazon to see some sample pages. I always find that very helpful. It will also sometimes lead me to other books…it’s a real problem!

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Sorry, I missed the part about distancing your trees. I think if you prune at the time of planting, you can keep your trees quite small. I’ve also been reading a bit about pruning at other times than winter. Years ago, that was the only recommended time, but what happens is that trees come out of dormancy and bolt. Summer pruning (before the solstice) slows down growth. Check out the book, Grow a Little Fruit Tree. If you do a search on line, there is a lot on it, too. Just type that in: (Grow…Tree).
I am far from any kind of expert; I’m just willing to try! Other than zones, there is so much more involved in plant success. Rainfall amounts, elevation, etc., so I would hate to hazard a guess about your list. The way I see it is, If it works, it’s a keeper; if it doesn’t, oh, well; try something else! Around here it’s “survival of the fittest!” I also can’t speak to when things come to fruition.
My property is only one acre and I can plant a plant in few different spots around the property and have bloom time and ripening time be different by a few weeks…and that can vary from year to year. For example, I have tons of snowdrops planted around and for the last few years, they were always up by mid February…they’re so needed after a long, drab winter, but this year, the ground was covered in snow; I still have piles a few feet high on the northern side of things, but the snowdrops are just starting to bloom…along with the species crocus and it’s literally the middle of March (Happy Ides of March) a full month later…which is fine. Better that than having them bloom under the snow where I never would have seen them!

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