I have some seeds for the first time in my hybrid and kaki persimmons.
The varieties are JT02 x Maru, Nikita’s gift X Maru, Jiro X Maru and Nishimura Wase X Maru
Do I need to stratify the seeds? Or can they be planted out now? Can I use a root pruning container to produce fibrous roots?
In the case of the kaki hybrids, can the offspring be male or will I always have a fruit producing seedling? I have never heard of a male kaki, hence the question.
What about hybrids? What is the chance that the offspring is a male? These hybrids will be 75-87.5% Kaki so they are mostly Kaki.
I think the probability of male trees is around 70% on Americans, not sure on kaki or hybrids.
On American, you stratify moist for a few months for better results. As kaki likes warmer climates that might not be the case… Hopefully someone else chimes in!
I stratified my hybrid persimmon seeds in a sandwich ziplock bag and placed them in the refrigerator in the fruits section and plant them out in late April in Z5. In warmer zone then planting them a bit earlier.
I’ve germinated kaki seeds just by putting them in moist paper towels in a zip lock and keeping if fairly warm (75 degrees or so). Once I see the root I stick them in pots. I have no idea what they turned into since I just did it for fun and gave them away through a local Facebook group.
I expect your mostly hybrid ones would germinate just fine without the cold treatment just like kaki. For me though, I find it hard to keep up with tree seedlings under lights and keep them from getting leggy, so I might put them in for stratifying just because it keeps them dormant until I can get them outside.
Even though I’ve seen people say that American persimmons need cold stratification, I’ve actually had them germinate without it. I’m not sure if you’d get a higher germination rate with stratification, but about half of mine just came up from going right into pots. These were locally collected (from a sidewalk) maybe had enough scarification from being stepped on and a cold night or two and that was all they really needed. I would be curious if someone did a test or if there was some good research on germination rates based on different lengths of stratification.
@SMC_zone6, @KYnuttrees, @Barkslip
Adding some of our resident experts to learn about the female/male ratio etc.
Wevhave been growing out from hybirds since 2006
Roughly the male to female ratio is about 70% male
But that not bad considering that every tree is usefull in that the males make excellent rootstocks
you ever see males flip to female? like years 3-5?
Beautiful fruit. What are the hybrids shown in the pictures?
Just in one cultivar its Hokkaido Kaki
I’ve had several (4 or 5) in a total of maybe 15 male trees, begin to produce fruit. They never stopped producing the male flowers, so I can’t call it a “flip.” Jerry Lehman told me once that that was uncommon.
Another question: How long will it take for seedlings to bear flowers?
Can the period be shortened by grafting to a mature tree? If so, how long will it take then?
It’s about seedling height. When they reach 5 or 6 feet, they probably are ready to flower. I have seen so many varieties though thru grafting that there are precocious cultivars from the get go. But, it’s about size.
Sure, grafting to a vigorous branch or vigorous seedling will result in much faster fruiting.
I’ve had some flower as quickly as five years. Most take at least seven.
I’ve been getting a mix of males and females with my hybrids. Although, in the case of JT-02 seedlings, in a small sample size of ten, all but one of those were female. For all my other hybrids, it’s usually more males than females.
80% is a literature reading suggestion for male to female ratio persimmon offspring.
Hey @ram if you’re smart enough you can keep seedlings in a gallon pot for 4+ years I guess. The stress brought about maybe 4 of the 15-20 that remain I grew seedlings of from Lehman’s orchard. It was this year they flowered. There’s almost none soil left in them. The other 11 or so I potted up as to not lose them, this fall. They literally are a block of roots almost like a hydroponic rooting square block of media. I could probably do well to root inside them.
I believe that it is standard practice in Japanese breeding programs to graft the seedling to an established rootstock. From an admittedly frail memory, I recall that the seedling can then fruit in 2-3 years.
I see a long way back in another thread that’s too old @cousinfloyd has found on average 4-5 years for virginiana on average. That sets with @SMC_zone6 5-years estimate. My suggestion for vigor being played in also will influence.
Tom Wahl showed me persimmon grafts - 1.5 years old and they were enormous topping out at sometimes 8 or more feet. He set his grafts on 1 year old seedlings only started in Plantra’s. He said when I left with a car full of Plantra’s for breeding here (seedling growth and not graft) that in 1-year the seedlings would be out of the tubes and that’s when they “immediately” was the word Tom said, ‘they would slow down…’ and resume to normal vigor.