I am interested to here of any of your results for us growing on the fringe of persimmon territory… Success versus failure. Lets learn together…
Well I thought I would post my experience for this past winter.
Something unusual happened… Not sure what, but it just goes to show that there are more factors than just the minimum lows to find solutions for…
Our midwinter lows were not too bad. We didnt get below 0F here in 6b.
But we had a very abrupt beginning to our winter… We went from things growing to a mid teens severe freeze with heavy wind chill around october 10th, and about a week later it dropped to near 10F with heavy winds.
So, here is my results:
- Kassandra, no damage on my 5’ tall tree and no damage on my young graft either.
- Rosseyanka, my small 2 year old tree is dead.
- NB-02, my 1 year old tree is dead.
- The tree I bought from burnt ridge as 3-4’ Nikita’s Gift is killed back yet again and may be dead…
Most of my other fruits such as apple, pear, cherry, apricot, and peach did not get any damage at all. A few jujubes got some damage…, Dae Sol Jo, So, and Xu Zhou did not get any damage, Shanxi Li, Black Sea, Tsao, and Winter Delight got major damage, and both Russian#5 grafts are dead…
But our wild russian mulberries!!! They are very hardy to zone 5 so I would never have expected damage! But on half of our big trees the young last years growth is all froze back! And many of my young seedling mulberries are froze severely, a very nice 4’ tall seedling RM I was growing out in my seedling garden was killed back all the way to the ground!!!
So, we are dealing with so many factors…
Any thoughts or results to share?
Rossyanka, JT-02, and Casandra did fine with normal Fall and Winter low of -12F. NB-02 grafted branch died at -12F. IMO, just plant a bunch of JT-02 and call it good. You got the richest tasting, very productive, and even beat out Hachiya on the richness and hardy at -20F then why bother growing any other Hybrids.
I am an optimist, but it is disappointing to buy expensive grafted trees and see this type thing take out half of them!
Sosnovskaya, Chuchupaka, and Pamjat Pasenkova made it through the winter for me. Barbra’s blush did not. I planted Gora Goverla, Gora Roman Kosh, and Gora Rogers this spring along with a JT-02. Hopefully scions from @tonyOmahaz5 make it.
That is great news on those hybrids!
I am growing Prairie Star. It made it through the winter per the scratch test, but is the only tree in my yard that hasn’t leafed out yet. The buds are visible and fuzzy but not doing much of anything yet. It’s probably three feet high, a whip still. I believe it came from Burnt Ridge.
I don’t know what the lowest low temp was this past winter, but we usually have plenty of days below zero. Prairie Star was not entirely covered with snow through the winter, either.
Hopefully it’s happier this year. Last year, the year I put it in, pole beans covered it and it got kind of lost in the mess. It didn’t grow much. I plan to protect it better from vines.
Our winter was exceptionally mild. Most of the cold actually came earlier in the season and our low probably wasn’t below 15 degrees F. All American, Asian, and hybrids made it through the winter to bud out in spring. However, we had a warm March that tricked a lot of them into budding out. A freeze in April burned back most of the ones that budded out. Most are showing signs of life again but I may have lost 1 or 2 trees. Some budded out later and have no damage. It’s not the extent of the cold but when the cold hit that determines who lives and dies in my case.
Thats too bad! Yeah timing was what I believe caused the damage for me too. What cultivars budded late and escaped damage?
Saijo, Nishimura Wase, 100-46, and Matsumoto did not bud out until after our frost. Tam Kam only partially budded out so there are plenty of dormant buds ones swelling up right now. It looks like I might lose smaller branches on some of my trees from the freeze. I can see some drying up and shriveling. At least a couple look completely dead.
Some trees such as Izu only had some leaves burn here and there but is recovering well. JT-02 appears most frost resistant. It had plump, green buds yet showed no damage.
That is great to know! I have a young jt-02 and considering your information of late budding later I may graft saijo and 100-46 to some of my young seedlings! Thanks!
Still early, but a garretson I got in the ground last fall isn’t looking too promising so far. I will be getting a bunch of American persimmon and some grafts using American persimmon in the ground, once I’m done chasing turkeys around this month. I will let you all know. I’m also going to get some mulberries in the ground up here in 4b as well.
Where I live (Belgium, zone 8) low winter temps are not the problem but spring frost is the potential killer… Seems as you all have the same problem… In my experience only American persimmon rootstock can be used because it starts to bud about 10 days after lotus or kaki root stock. These 10 days can make a huge difference!! The second most important thing is to get a variety that will leaf out as late as possible. O’Gosho, Nishijo, Saijo, Triumph, Pakistan Seedless, Sheng are some varieties that leaf out quite late. Next is the natural capability of a variety to deal with low temperatures when allready leafed out. There is not one variety that will stand frost when the buds have just opened and that are just starting to leaf out. Once in leaf some varieties can survive some light frost such as Saijo and Nishijo. I even have a Nishijo crossing that has withstood 2 consecutive nights of -3°C/-5°C. The young growth was severely affected but not frozen and it went on to grow and even flowered and fruited that same year. That was end of April 2017 when the whole of Europe was hit by severe late frost even as far south as the Mediterranean… Rojo Brillante is just the opposite, this one will leaf out so early that frost damage is almost a certainty…
Anyway, I believe that using D.virginiana rootstock and choosing a late budding variety is the most important decision to make when you want to grow persimmons in a risky place. By design, hybrids are usually hardier than pure Asian Kaki trees but that only helps when the trees are fully dormant. When these hybrids start to bud early than they are just as prone to frost damage as a regular Asian kaki…
Thanks for your insight connecting spring frost damage with rootstock and natural
However I feel there are some inconsistencies in your post from my experience.
Saijo is the earliest leafing out persimmon. By far. It leafed out in late February/ early March here. Rojo Brillante leafs out a LOT later for me. This is consistent over several years. Almost late March. They are very close to each other so unlikely because of microclimate.
Americans leaf out distinctly later than Asians for me. Hybrids are in between.
Hi @ramv are all of your persimmons on the same type of rootstock? Mikatani mentions different rootstocks causing trees to leaf out at different times. Mine are all on D. virginiana. Saijo budded out rather late for me in mid-April, about a month after my earliest kaki. Prok was among the first to leaf out, while 100-46 was among the last. Those, however, are the only 2 Americans I have planted so far.
I have many potted trees that were grafted last year and they all showed interesting differences in when they leafed out. Korea kaki, and Imoto budded out in mid-March. Gwang Yang, Chinebuli, and 20th Century budded out later in Mid-April. I have four 20th Century trees that I grafted last year and they all budded out around the same time.
An interesting observation I had was that different D. virginiana rootstocks, which I haven’t grafted yet, showed plenty of variations in when they budded out. I had a discussion with another member previously that this could influence when the grafted tree buds out, and thus its vulnerability to a late frost.
Interesting info yall! Perhaps we can one day come up with a list of leaf/bud timing like they do with cherry bloom times etc:
To add to my damage list, for my fall extremes, it looks like several of my 2 year 2’ american seedlings were also killed to the ground as well as my young 2’ yates. And my big Mimosa 15 foot tall was killed to the ground also. I think the roots will resprout.
But, I need varieties that can take zone 6 minimums reliably, and also leaf out late and go dormant early. I think Kasandraand JT-02 will meet that expectation. But perhaps not some of the others that can take zone 6 minimums but have other dangers.
I would sure like to hear continued updates about your overseas hybrids!
Kasandra and Rosseyanka were my earliest persimmons to leaf out, and were badly burned by the April freeze, but are budding again. One Kasandra that I grafted last year, however, did not bud out until much later. Only one of my America persimmons showed much winter or late freeze damage, but it is just a rootstock and will be cut down. My young chestnut trees were hurt badly and some may die.
Did you have any other hybrids or kaki that were later than Rosseyanka?
Kasandra and Rosseyanka are my only hybrids so far. Will be grafting on others soon: Tam Kam, JBT-06, Journey, and NB-02.
Here are some of my persimmon trees now 5-17-20.
Hybrid male persimmon from Jerry Lehmann for future Hybrids crosses.
7 varieties multi grafted American persimmon tree
5 years ago JT-02
9 yrs old Nikita’s gift topworked to Rossyanka then topworked again to JT-02 with American persimmon rootstock. Crazy stuff.
4 yrs old Kasandra trained in vase form
Another Jerry Lehmann Hybrid male persimmon for future Hybrids cross
Jerry Lehmann 100-46
18 feet tall Prok American persimmon tree
The 4 productive TamKam non astringent Kaki
Rojo Brillante astringent Kaki
So even though the weather is the same but some of the JT-02 are more advanced leafing out than others JT-02. Rootstocks matter IMO.