Persimmon root suckers

[aoist]

Hello, I have a 5 year old Giambo persimmon tree that shot up 10 root suckers this year and I was wondering how to best propagate it. Would it be best to take them now (about a foot tall) or should I let it grow the season and take them in the winter?
Thanks
Tom

[scottfsmith]

The tree was probably grafted so the suckers will be the rootstock not Giombo. Still you could dig up the rootstocks and graft something to them once they settle in to their new spots. You can dig up suckers any time they are dormant. If leaves are out it is not a good idea as it will often die.

[aoist]

Hi Scott, As to whether my persimmon trees are grafted or not. I do not see any obvious graft joints. What do you think? Thank you very much for your help.

![DSCF9575|690x920]
Tom

[tonyOmahaz5]

Your tree definately an Asian persimmon tree by looking at the leaves and not a lotus or American persimmon rootstock.

[aoist]

What do you think? Do you see any sign of grafting on the trunk?

[scottfsmith]

The bark changes color a bit near the base, that could be the graft. No nursery today sells anything but grafted Giombos, it is too hard to propagate persimmons by rooting.

[aoist]

Are you seriously suggesting there would not be a physical scar? Any grafted tree would show some type of healing scar. It is not an impossibility to produce root suckers of genuine Giombo persimmon, as I plan to do. Air layer a Giombo, grow and get root suckers from that air layer produced Giombo. Done. What do you think?

[tonyOmahaz5]

Air layering persimmon is very hard if you don’t have a long enough season. I tried several times but my season is too short to form roots and only callouses. You can try air layering as soon as the tree woke up.

[scottfsmith]

Are you seriously suggesting there would not be a physical scar?

Yes. Over the years trees can heal surprisingly well. The main signs of a graft on an older tree are often only differences in bark color or the consistency of the bark. Some types of trees hide grafts better than others… I have a mulberry I grafted several varieties to and if it were not for the bark color differences I could not tell where I did the grafts five years ago. Persimmons often have different type of bark on either sides of the graft, bigger vs smaller flakes (or whatever those pieces are called on bark).

I didn’t realize you were thinking of air layers, I thought you had rootstock suckers on your current tree. I have never tried air layering persimmons.

[jcguarneri]

I’m not there yet in my persimmon journey (still waiting for rootstocks to arrive for grafting), but from what I’ve read getting cuttings or airlayers to take is low percentage at best. There are a couple of other techniques that I plan on trying out: etiolation and grafting a small piece of nurse root to cuttings.
I’ve found some info in the scientific literature if etiolation being used successfully on Asian and American persimmons. I shared my findings here

Rooting Cuttings By Etiolation

Has anyone tried etiolation methods of rooting hard-to-root species, such as persimmon, apple, peach? I first came across the basic method while reading through Garner’s The Grafter’s Handbook and was intrigued. Garner describes basically leaning over the stock plant, pinning it to the ground, and burying it. You then repeatedly cover the shoots that emerge from the buried buds (similar to stooling rootstocks) to promote a blanched, leggy growth that is more likely to root. I found this more up-…

Once you get them on their own roots, it should be easier to clone them from suckers or root cuttings.

[aoist]

Just what type of graftng technique do you think it was that would not leave a visibly noticeable scar in only 5 years? By the way, the grafting mark you were refering to earlier is only there because I just happen to clear away the oak leave to take the picture, and the darker color is darker only because of more moisture contend. I just this afternoon double checked, if you like I can shoot another picture from same angle and direction.
What do you know about the leaf differences in the characteristics of Asian and American persimmons? If you knew, that’d help me compare the two. I read somewhere that there is some differnces, so I’m thinking that the root suckers are most likely Giombo, since I see no differences in the leaves.
Anyway it’s still useful.I have Saijo and Fuyu persimmons which I like to also propagate.

[PharmerDrewee]

If you post pictures of these suckers particularly the leaves, someone should be able to identify them as kaki or virginiana. There is some variation in kaki leaves but they tend to be very shiny.

Maybe you planted the graft below the soil?

[aoist]

See Persimmon root suckers 2 post at (Persimmon root suckers 2)
It seems newbies are allowed only one image uploads per post!
Ridiculous!

[jcguarneri]

I know it seems silly, but that’s a feature, not a bug. The site has a lot of built in controls that prevent spam and whatnot. The controls also protect you while you learn our arcane customs.

[mamuang]

@aoist,
In addition to what @jcguarneri said, the forum and its set up encourages participation and exchange of knowledge and experience.
The more you participate, the more you will be able to use the features it offers.

While you are gaining trust with the forum, you can spend time reading up old threads and posts using the looking glass symbol on the top left hand corner. A lot of questions have been asked.

[aoist]

@mamuang,
What do you think that I’m going to do? Spam this site with a bunch of useless image uploads? It just created an inconvenience as I had to post another topic just to upload one more image.

[mamuang]

The forum is public. All kinds of people can sign up. We have had spammers and cheaters ( for scion) now and again.

I am not accusing you of anything. I just stated what has happened and why.

Patience is often needed in fruit growing.

[aoist]

Giombo Root suckers

[tonyOmahaz5]

Those root suckers are definitely not Giombo or Asian persimmons. The leaf looked like D.V American persimmon rootstoct. You just have to graft them to whatever Asian persimmon varieties that you want.

[aoist]

Thank you Tony, It is very surprising that there is no noticeable graft scars in just 5 years, maybe as someone sugested, the the scar is under the soil. Yes, I’ll try to graft some of these. But eventually, I’ll try air layering.