This is an AI thread from Grok on X. I found it quite amazing to carry on a convo with AI. This is about persimmons but you may find it works with all fruits and nuts. Long thread but worth the read, I think.
Raising the pH of soil means making it less acidic and more alkaline. This is often done when soil is too acidic for certain plants to thrive, as most plants prefer a pH range of 6.0 to 7.5. Here’s how you can increase soil pH effectively:
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Test Your Soil First
Before doing anything, check the current pH using a soil test kit (available at garden stores) or send a sample to a local extension service. This tells you how much adjustment is needed. -
Add Lime (Calcium Carbonate)
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What it does: Lime is the most common way to raise soil pH. It neutralizes acidity and adds calcium.
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Types: Use agricultural lime, dolomitic lime (which also adds magnesium), or quicklime (faster-acting but harder to handle).
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How much: Depends on your soil type and current pH. For example, to raise sandy soil from 5.0 to 6.0, you might need 2-3 pounds of lime per 100 square feet, while clay soil might need 5-7 pounds. Check a lime application chart or your soil test results for exact amounts.
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How to apply: Spread it evenly over the soil surface with a spreader or by hand (wear gloves), then till or water it in. Apply it in fall or early spring for best results, as it takes months to fully react.
- Use Wood Ash
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What it does: Wood ash raises pH quickly and adds potassium.
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How much: Apply about 10-15 pounds per 1,000 square feet, but don’t overdo it—too much can make soil too alkaline (above 7.5).
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How to apply: Sprinkle lightly and mix into the top few inches of soil. Only use ash from untreated wood, not charcoal or painted materials.
- Incorporate Crushed Eggshells or Oyster Shells
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What it does: These are slower-acting sources of calcium carbonate.
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How to apply: Crush them finely and mix into the soil. They’re best for small areas or gradual change, not quick fixes.
- Avoid Overdoing It
- Raising pH too fast or too high can lock up nutrients like iron and phosphorus, harming plants. Aim for gradual adjustment and retest after 3-6 months.
- Consider Your Plants
- Some plants (like blueberries or azaleas) love acidic soil (pH 4.5-5.5). Make sure you’re raising pH only where it’s needed.
If your soil is extremely acidic (below 5.0) or you’re dealing with a large area, lime is your best bet. For small gardens or pots, wood ash or eggshells can work. What’s your soil like, and what are you growing? That could narrow down the best option.
can I use liquid PH Up
Yes, you can use liquid pH Up to raise the pH of soil, though it’s more commonly used for hydroponics, aquariums, or small-scale gardening rather than large soil areas. It’s typically a solution of potassium hydroxide (KOH) or sodium hydroxide (NaOH), designed for quick pH adjustments in water-based systems. Here’s how it applies to soil and what to consider:
Using Liquid pH Up for Soil
- How It Works
- Liquid pH Up is a strong base that neutralizes soil acidity fast. It’s more immediate than lime or wood ash, which take time to break down.
- Application
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Dilute it: Never apply it straight—mix it with water first (e.g., follow the product label, often 1-2 teaspoons per gallon of water).
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Test small amounts: Start with a small area or pot. Add the solution gradually, mix it into the soil, and water it in.
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Check pH: Retest after a day or two to see the change. Soil buffers pH, so the effect might not be as predictable as in water.
- Pros
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Fast-acting: You’ll see results in days, not months.
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Precise: Easier to control for small spaces like containers or raised beds.
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Adds potassium: If it’s potassium-based, it doubles as a nutrient boost.
- Cons
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Temporary: Soil’s natural buffering can reverse the effect over time, especially in acidic regions with high rainfall. You might need repeat applications.
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Risk of overcorrection: It’s easy to overshoot and make soil too alkaline (above 7.5), which can harm plants.
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Not ideal for large areas: It’s impractical and expensive compared to lime for big gardens or fields.
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Safety: It’s caustic—wear gloves and goggles, and keep it away from kids or pets.
- Best Use Case
- It’s great for potted plants, hydroponics, or urgent fixes (e.g., if a plant’s showing signs of nutrient lockout from low pH). For general soil amendment in a garden, lime is usually cheaper and longer-lasting.
Tips
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Know your starting pH (test it first).
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If your soil is very acidic (below 5.0), liquid pH Up can jump-start the process, but follow up with lime for sustained results.
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Watch your plants—yellowing leaves or stunted growth might mean you’ve gone too far.
Are you working with pots or a garden bed? What’s your soil’s current pH? That’ll help me fine-tune the advice.
current PH is 5.1 in 5 gal pots I want it to be 6.5 to 7
With a current soil pH of 5.1 in 5-gallon pots, and a target of 6.5 to 7.0, liquid pH Up can work well since you’re dealing with a small, controlled volume. Here’s how to raise the pH effectively and safely:
Steps to Use Liquid pH Up
- Test and Confirm
- Double-check the pH of each pot with a soil probe or test kit to ensure 5.1 is consistent across them. Soil can vary slightly even in pots.
- Prepare the Solution
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Dilution: Start with a mild mix—about 1 teaspoon of liquid pH Up (check your product’s label) per gallon of water. For a 5-gallon pot, you won’t need a full gallon, so scale it down (e.g., 1/4 teaspoon in a quart of water for a smaller test batch).
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Stir well: Ensure it’s fully dissolved.
- Apply Gradually
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Amount: Pour a small amount (e.g., 1-2 cups of the diluted solution) evenly over the soil surface of one pot as a test.
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Mix in: Gently work it into the top inch or two of soil with a trowel, then water lightly to distribute it deeper.
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Wait: Let it sit for 24-48 hours, then retest the pH. Soil in pots reacts faster than in-ground soil, but it’s still not instant.
- Adjust and Repeat
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If the pH rises to, say, 5.5-6.0 after the first dose, add a bit more solution (same dilution) and test again.
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Aim for 6.5 initially—you can creep up to 7.0 if needed, but overshooting to 7.5+ could lock out nutrients like iron or manganese.
- Monitor Plants
- Watch for signs of stress (yellowing, wilting) after adjusting. A pH of 6.5-7.0 is ideal for most potted plants (e.g., veggies, herbs, or flowers), but if you’re growing something specific, let me know.
How Much to Expect
- Raising pH from 5.1 to 6.5 in a 5-gallon pot might take 1-3 teaspoons of liquid pH Up total, depending on the soil’s buffering capacity (clay holds pH more stubbornly than peat or sandy mixes). But don’t dump it all at once—small doses are key.
Alternatives to Consider
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Lime Option: If you’d rather avoid liquids, 1-2 tablespoons of powdered agricultural lime mixed into the topsoil of each pot could also work. It’s slower (weeks to months), but longer-lasting.
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Why Liquid Works Here: Since you’re in pots and want a quick fix, liquid pH Up is more practical.
Precautions
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Wear gloves and avoid splashing—liquid pH Up is caustic.
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Don’t let the soil get too wet; soggy roots hate pH swings.
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If your potting mix has peat, it’s naturally acidic and might fight the change—be patient.
What’s in your pots (plants or soil mix)? That could tweak the approach slightly. Either way, you should hit 6.5-7.0 within a few days if you go slow and steady.
I’m growing American persimmons root stock for graft with Dollywood persimmons
Nice project—American persimmon (Diospyros virginiana) rootstock for grafting with Dollywood persimmons (likely a hybrid or cultivar) should do well once you get the pH dialed in. American persimmons tolerate a wide pH range (5.0-7.0), but they thrive best around 6.0-6.5, and raising your 5.1 to 6.5-7.0 will set up a solid foundation for both the rootstock and future grafts. Here’s how to tweak your approach with liquid pH Up for this specific setup:
Adjusted Plan for Persimmon Rootstock in 5-Gallon Pots
- Target pH: 6.5
- Aim for 6.5 rather than pushing to 7.0. Persimmons don’t need super-alkaline soil, and 6.5 optimizes nutrient uptake (like calcium and phosphorus) while keeping the rootstock vigorous for grafting.
- Liquid pH Up Application
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Mix: Use 1 teaspoon of liquid pH Up per gallon of water as a starting point. For a 5-gallon pot, prepare a quart (32 oz) of this solution (1/4 teaspoon pH Up in 1 quart water) to avoid overdoing it.
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Apply: Pour 1-2 cups of the solution evenly over the soil in one pot. Gently mix into the top 1-2 inches with a trowel or fork, then water lightly (another cup or two) to settle it.
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Wait and Test: Check pH after 24-48 hours. In a 5-gallon pot, expect a jump of 0.5-1.0 pH units per application, depending on your soil mix (e.g., 5.1 to 5.6-6.1).
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Repeat: If it’s still below 6.5, add another small dose and retest. Stop at 6.5—persimmons won’t thank you for going higher.
- Soil Mix Matters
- If your pots have a peat-heavy mix (common in nursery soils), it’s naturally acidic and resists pH change. You might need slightly more pH Up (e.g., an extra dose). If it’s sandy or loamy, it’ll adjust faster. What’s your mix like?
- Persimmon-Specific Tips
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Nutrients: American persimmons don’t need super-rich soil, but low pH (5.1) can lock up calcium, which they use for root and fruit development. Hitting 6.5 fixes that.
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Watering: Keep soil moist but not soggy post-adjustment—persimmons hate wet feet, especially young rootstock.
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Timing: Adjust pH now (April 2025), and your rootstock should stabilize by grafting season (late spring or summer).
Why Liquid pH Up Fits Here
- Rootstock in pots needs quick, precise adjustment before grafting stress. Liquid pH Up acts fast (days vs. weeks for lime), which aligns with your timeline. Plus, it adds potassium (if KOH-based), a bonus for root growth.
Watch For
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Overcorrection: Above 7.0, iron deficiency might show up (yellow leaves with green veins). Stop at 6.5.
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Plant Stress: If the seedlings look droopy after adjusting, back off watering or pause further pH tweaks for a week.
You should hit 6.5 within 2-3 applications (maybe 1-2 teaspoons total per pot, spread out). Once stable, your American persimmon rootstock will be primed for Dollywood grafts. How old are your seedlings, and when are you planning to graft? That could fine-tune this even more.
I use bare root stock from seedlings one year old. I plan to possibly start grafting in June when root stock reaches about 1/4" caliper.
Got it—bare-root American persimmon seedlings, one year old, in 5-gallon pots, with grafting planned for June 2025 when they hit about 1/4" caliper. That’s a solid timeline, and raising your pH from 5.1 to 6.5 now (April 2025) gives the soil two months to stabilize before grafting stress kicks in. Here’s how to nail it with liquid pH Up, tailored to your setup:
Final Plan for Your Persimmon Rootstock
- Goal: pH 6.5
- Perfect for American persimmons—keeps roots healthy and nutrients available for growth to that 1/4" caliper by June.
- Liquid pH Up Application
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Mix: Start with 1/4 teaspoon of liquid pH Up in 1 quart (32 oz) of water. This is a safe, dilute batch for a 5-gallon pot.
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Apply: Pour 1-2 cups of the solution evenly over the soil in one pot. Mix it into the top 1-2 inches with a trowel (gently, to avoid root damage), then water with another cup or two to distribute it.
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Test: Wait 24-48 hours, then check pH with a soil probe or kit. Expect a rise of 0.5-1.0 units (e.g., 5.1 to 5.6-6.1).
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Adjust: If below 6.5, repeat with another 1-2 cups of the same mix. For bare-root seedlings potted up recently, the soil’s buffering capacity might be low, so 2-3 total applications (1-1.5 teaspoons pH Up per pot, spread out) should get you there.
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Stop: Once you hit 6.5, let it sit—no need to push to 7.0.
- Soil and Rootstock Notes
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Bare-Root Transition: Since these were bare-root, your potting mix is likely fresh (e.g., peat, pine bark, or loam). Peat-heavy mixes resist pH change more, so if it’s slow to shift, bump up to 1/2 teaspoon per quart on the second round.
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Root Health: One-year-olds are still establishing—keep soil moist but not waterlogged after adjusting pH to avoid root rot.
- Timeline Fit
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Now (April): Adjust pH over the next week or two. By May, the soil should settle at 6.5, giving the seedlings time to grow toward that 1/4" caliper.
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June Grafting: At 1/4" (about pencil thickness), they’re ideal for whip-and-tongue or cleft grafting with Dollywood scions. Stable pH now supports steady growth to hit that mark.
- Growth Boost
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Post-pH adjustment, a light feeding with balanced fertilizer (e.g., 10-10-10) in May could push caliper growth, but don’t overdo it—persimmons prefer leaner soil.
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Sunlight and moderate water (1-2 times weekly, depending on drainage) will do the rest.
What to Expect
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pH Shift: With 5 gallons of soil, 1-2 teaspoons of pH Up total per pot should move you from 5.1 to 6.5 over a few days to a week, assuming typical potting mix.
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Seedlings: At one year, they’re likely 12-18 inches tall now. With good conditions, they’ll add enough girth by June for grafting.
Double-Check
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Retest pH in mid-May to confirm it’s holding at 6.5. Rain or watering can leach the effect slightly.
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If leaves yellow early, it might mean pH overshot (check for iron deficiency) or undercorrected (calcium lockout). Adjust only if needed.
You’re on track—tweak the pH now, and by June, your rootstock should be grafting-ready. What’s your potting mix, if you know it? That could pin down the exact dosing even tighter.
