Yeah, please take a photo next time.
A lot of experienced growers have reported zero success rooting either D. virginiana or D. kaki. Until I see solid proof of success, I will remain skeptical.
Note that some investigators may report different results for other Diospyros species (e.g., D. lotus) and report the results for “persimmon.”
I ended up taking the cutting of the soil again (to take a photo) and can confirm that there is no root development. Yesterday, I saw some strings hanging from the bottom and must have confused them for root development … must have been something in the soil? Oh well.
I am grateful for folks on this forum for informing me about the impossibility of growing Fuyus from cuttings–I definitely had the impression it was possible from youtube.
I do have another question–is grafting the only option for cloning if you have a Fuyu tree that bears fruit without any seeds.
Yes. Grafting is the only way.
Maybe, just like the study carried out on clonal propagation of American persimmon , it might be possible that some varieties, individuals of kaki can be propagated by cuttings. However…I’m very sceptical. I believe this propagation method would be much more common if it were feasable. Propagation from root cuttings is another matter. Both American and Asian persimmon can be propagated from root cuttings. But of course then you would first need a tree on its own roots to start with…
Skepticism is healthy when viewing sensationalized YouTube videos. I am hoping that my cuttings that appeared to be alive will continue to grow this spring and that @JCW has succeeded as well!
It’s not just the sensational, some are levelly presented as “here’s how to do it”, as though the creator knows wtf they are talking about, when in fact they are trying it for the first time themselves.
I wish they would say, “I haven’t done this before, but from what I gather, this is how to do it, watch”.
Then there are those who are outright charlatans, also in abundance.
You can be honest, but leave out a few facts so that it looks like you said something, but you didn’t lie.
In practice it makes little sense to root Diospyros because it is much more complicated than grafting. But if you want to have some with their own roots for special reasons, it is possible and I think with the right combination of hormones you can also root those that don’t normally root
There we go again with the misinformation.
Pfff
I will be thrilled to see a cutting with roots on it.
I have to admit I feel challenged to prove it now…
but it doesn’t matter
The OP asked about “practical experience.” Whether it is “possible” in a lab with the right combination of hormones (or whatever) is really a different issue. The spirit of the original question was whether growers like us can root persimmons from cuttings, using simple methods. The weight of the evidence says no.
Yeah, in other words, “if you have to ask…” then the answer is no. Is it technically possible, is a different question.
Ok, now I will need to try it myself. I always read pesimmon cuttings were hard to root but I have many trees, so I hope to see something in 6 months. I know avocado & loquat cuttings are also improbable to root.
Fruitwood nursery is able to regularly root loquat cuttings. One Green World showed me a rooted cutting of loquat. So it is possible.
Anything that can be air layered can theoretically be rooted.
Persimmons I believe are altogether different.
As stated in the Israeli study if you guys care to look it up, only certain individuals are capable under “normal” conditions, and they have a genetic predisposition for this ability. This is altogether different from, say, pawpaws, where rooting is altogether close to impossible without significant and sustained effort in a lab to get cuttings to root.
Hence why I plan to try rooting various named varieties (and rootstock I cut) to try and find some which root readily. If you could stick cuttings in potting soil and make new trees like a currant or gooseberry, isn’t there value in that? I certainly think so.
Plus if a named variety is on its own roots, for marginal zones you know any suckers that come up would be true to type. I know jujubes seemed extremely hard to root until @tonyOmahaz5 developed a reasonable approach which can be replicated. I’m hopeful the same holds true for D. virginiana, and maybe some kaki varieties too.
Another example in the fruit world to follow up my post above - some mulberries are easy to root, many others not so much. So there is precedent for genetic predisposition based on “luck of the draw”. I know it’s not probable that named varieties fit the bill, but it doesn’t hurt to try for someone pruning anyway…
Yes, but mulberry is much easier, most can be rooted. I know only 2 varieties that seems to be difficult, working on it, just for fun.
not sure this was your gist, but it did make me think of the technique of splitting the cutting and inserting a seed. the sprouting seed is supposed to release auxins or some such. theres also nut grafting where you insert a scion directly into a germinating nut. apparently it can work quite well. Ive not tried, but I read a bunch about it in one of the publications of the New Alchemists. They were working with walnuts and maybe hickories. I wonder if splitting a scion and inserting a persimmon seed might have any promise. Itd have to be a big-ish scion and a smallish seed I suppose. Probably a crazy idea but it might just work. Then again, if it did it would just be grafting, wouldnt it?
Seems like my D. kaki Dunaj cuttings taken in mid/end of March are beginning to leaf out.
