Hi all, I’d like to start a thread just for this particular variety. I recently acquired a plant. Or I think I did, but the flowers and leaves seem a bit too raspberry like. Curious what you guys think about phenomenal berry itself and if I’ve actually got the real deal.
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The stem looks Tayberry like, so it’s likely some kind of hybrid, just not sure if Phenomenal Berry itself is supposed to look quite like this.
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Phenomenal berry is a loganberry cross so the raspberry-like leaves and stems are expected. That said mislabelling is pretty common with hybrid berries, hard to tell definitively without fruit. Worth growing on to see what you get.
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Unless you received your plant from Lance Mellon or someone that Lance sold them to or traded with.. I doubt you have Phenomenal..or as Lance spells it Phenominal.
Pictures from Lance
I wouldnt recommend this to anyone lower than Z7 or above due to winter damage.. and folks should be wary that it often gets rosette or witches broom.. so plan accordingly.
Flavor to me was much milder than Boysen and the ‘thornless logan’. Very attractive berry though due to the redness.
Unless that plant has been in cold storage it shouldnt be flowering now i dont think.
By the looks of it..might be an ever bearing black rasp?
If you want to try something different but akin to Phenomenal.. go for Olympic.. as its more hardy.. and more complex in flavor.
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If you have a photograph of the thorns then I could probably tell you if it looks similar to the Phenomenals I’ve gotten from Lance. Thorns are dense, thinner, and more hair-like. A younger plant will sort of resemble a young raspberry, yes. You probably have flowers on your plant if it was a tip-rooted start established over winter and it happened to send out a lateral from the remainder of the parent cane after the fact. Seen boysens do it.
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That looks a lot like mine. I guess now it’s a race between you and me who gets fruit first : )
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Hi all. I’m trying to figure out what this unidentified berry is, I’ve been tossing up between loganberry LY59, phenomenal and tayberry but the canes are almost purple (photo doesn’t do it justice) and the prickles are longer and also dark purple red plus the waxy bloom is a bit more noticeable than a tayberry or Logan and very noticeable in older canes. Can anyone help? Does this match phenomenal?
Ok.. i like a mystery but I need more info.
Where do you live that Phenomenal or Thorny Loganberry might be a possibility? One is very very rare and the other possibly unobtainium.
This is from my phenomenal
Fruit-
Thorny Loganberry as far as I know is only in Europe right now. I have yet to come across a plant of it in the US.
Here is what it looks like there-
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Thanks for the pics, I’d say it’s not an ly59 as the canes are pretty consistently round and not angled like they appear to be in the picture.
I’m in Otago, NZ.
Phenomenal and LY59 were both grown in NZ in the fifties and then lost to backyards along with a lot of other hybrids that I’ve been searching for. Unfortunately I was unable to attach more than one pic as I’m new, but here’s one of an older canes prickles
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Both of these and many others (2,394 total) are at NCGR Corvallis, Oregon USA. Qualified researchers can certainly obtain them. The records can be viewed at GRIN Accessions, although be sure to set the query limit well above the 500 record default.
Here is the description provided for Phenomenal under the ‘Passport’ tab.
Developer(s):
Burbank, Luther
Collector(s):
Hummer, Kim, USDA, ARS
This cultivar was first described [by Luther Burbank] in 1893 as 'Hybrid Berry V.C. 18,234. The next year, 1894, he called it a blackberry-raspberry hybrid and named it ‘Humbolt’. In 1909 it was sold to John Lewis Childs, who rechristened it ‘Phenomenal’, the name it bore ever afterwards. A newspaper clipping in Burbank’s scrapbook states that it was introduced by the California Carnation Company of Loomis, California as one of Burbank’s “New Offerings for 1905”. It is a second-generation hybrid from crossing the California wild dewberry with the ‘Cuthbert’ raspberry and was regarded by Burbank as a new species. It bears a marked resemblance to the ‘Loganberry’, but is considered by growers as superior to that variety. ‘Phenomenal’ is still found in the markets of California - W. L. Howard, 1945 ----------- The Phenomenal berry, sometimes known as ‘Burbank’s Logan’, was selected by Luther Burbank in California from the second generation of a cross between ‘Aughinbaugh’ blackberry and ‘Cuthbert’ raspberry. It was introduced in 1905 and reached England about 1910. Although it is similar to the ‘Loganberry’, its fruit are larger, slightly lighter in color and its advocates considered it sweeter, richer, and more distinctive in flavor. But it did not compete successfully with ‘Loganberry’ in commerce. in a trial in East Malling from 1936 to 1939 it was inferior to the ‘Loganberry’ for yield but superior to it for fruit size and resistance to cane spot. There was no difference between the two forms in canning quality, though the larger size and better appearance of the ‘Phenomenal’ berries made them more suitable for some purposes. Like the ‘Loganberry’, the ‘Phenomenal’ is a hexaploid. Its chromosome behavior at meiosis is essentially regular, usually with 21 bivalents. Jennings 1988.
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I have myself a couple of abominations that were seedlings that i found.. The expression of thorns in the younger plants especially at the base are some kind of prehistoric gene or something that gets expressed.. that says ‘stay away’!! Not saying that is what you have but it is my guess.
The desire for fruits to proliferate via seed is incredible… i think some folks with pears, forest apples and plums know that the ancient ones or abominations have thorns.
Anyways.. nothing really matters until it fruits and we see dates then we can reverse engineer it.
in NZ.. my guess would be some kind of Boysenberry seedling. But i dont know your area and what is heavily grown nearby..
Dont trust that picture i posted before.. i forgot about this video. (this is a seedling of Loganberry as well) he says it tastes better.
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Unobtainium as far as i am concerned in the trade of public and private growing. Probably not for a qualified researcher like many on this forum.
Phenomenal was brought forth by Lance Mellon from Burbank’s collection near where he lives publicly.
Thorny Loganberry- Krieger’s was selling a blackberry with that name. Ison’s was selling im not sure what calling it Loganberry. I have yet to see anyone claiming to have it or grow it true to name in the US.
Wyeberry- I gave one plant to a person on here. Good luck getting this one.
Silvan- i have shared plants with a couple of folks. Good luck getting it elsewhere.
I brought Newberry back as well as Siskiyou and Kotata (which is now being sold online) to several members on here to keep them going. Folks have had them before via nurseries but i cannot tell where anyone is currently growing or sharing plants anywhere.
Illini Hardy is also gone other than what TN Hunter has and what I have given to a few members here as well. I think it is up in Canada now.
If anyone wants a challenge of unobtainable (other than the qualified researchers everywhere)- Get the original Youngberry here in the US. Not the thornless Youngberry that was sold and is actually thornless Boysenberry.
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@krismoriah
The documentation I provided makes it clear that true Phenomenal has no Logan heritage but is instead dewberry x raspberry, which is consistent with @a_Vivaldi 's observations.
In my experience, Rubus specimens are available from NCGR Corvallis for academic research – although you might end up on a waiting list for popular cultivars. I recently sequenced their ‘T1’ diploid blackberry.
Not sure why you tagged me.
Will be interesting how modern growers view this in their locations. 100 years ago it had issues. The new California grower stated that he had none of the issues that i have in the East.. however when grown in the West 100 years ago it had issues.
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Ah awesome, hanging out for it to fruit now. I did not know apples and pears could have thorns!
I’ve managed to find the original thorned youngberry here, and also bought Aurora blackberry and Marion off another collector. Still looking for olallie, Logan, phenomenal, and a few others,
Thanks for your help!
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It is available on the south island. It’s a vigorous, prickly beast but well worth growing.
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Do you have any leads on where?? The berry farms have pulled them out as far as I could find