Ponca - A new U of A blackberry achieves "pinnacle of flavor"

Would be interested on if this variety lives up to its recent hype.

Ponca, a new blackberry variety from the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture, offers the pinnacle of flavor from one of the world’s leading public blackberry breeding program, officials say.

Ponca is the 20th blackberry from the fruit breeding program of the division’s Arkansas Agricultural Experiment Station

“This is about as exciting as anything I’ve ever had my hands on,” Clark said. “When I noticed how good Ponca tasted, I thought that if Ponca was someone’s first blackberry, it would change their entire perception of what a blackberry is.

https://www.pbcommercial.com/news/20191231/new-u-of-blackberry-achieves-pinnacle-of-flavor-experts-say

EDIT: Ah shoot, should have searched before creating this topic. Looks like its a duplicate to this post here: Ponca Blackberry

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It was worth you posting just to see this quote. :grin:

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It’s pretty normal for the University of Arkansas to promote each new blackberry variety with a lot of enthusiasm. Some people may use the word “hype”.

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This looks like a variety I definitely want to try :+1:

It hasn’t worked for me. I don’t care for thornless blackberries, they have a certain off putting flavor that lingers in them sometimes. I don’t notice once processed though. Still I removed all of my thornless types. Very productive and a huge hit at harvest and I miss them. This new one sounds like it is at least better than the others. I’m willing to try it.
I need a good regular blackberry. A lot of people like Osage and they rate this even higher. It did undergo taste trials and won everything. Borderline hardy here, so it still might not be the best choice.

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If you dislike the taste of the Arkansas blackberries you need to try some of the early thornless varieties like Dirkson or Black Satan. They were sour and awful. Very soft with no storage life. After growing these for a while I was amazed by how much better the Arkansas berries were compared to early thornless varieties from USDA.

I need to try the newest Arkansas introductions but I’m not expecting a huge improvement compare to Natchez, Navaho, Oouachita or Osage

If true, then i will discard it. It would be nice not to deal with thorns. I need though, to actually like the berry.
The western trailing blackberries is where I’m at. Those have complex rich flavors and vary from each other by miles. By far my favorites.

Newberry is one of my favorites. The berries are purple with a reddish juice (on my middle finger). taste like blackberries, then you get a very distinct raspberry aftertaste. Magnificent! Has over 35 cultivars in it’s lineage. Including Marion, boysen, and logan.

Wyeberries are a type of boysenberry. These are tart till soft ripe. I like them slightly firn and use them exclusively for processing. Excellent syrup or jam. Very unique flavor.
Wyeberries grow better here than boysen. Also earlier and bigger berries.

Tayberries are so sweet, no tartness. They kinda taste like strawberries. They do not taste like blackberries or raspberries. Great for fresh eating and processing.

I also like Marion. I challenge any to beat it. Best ever. No photos, I gotta do that next year.
Siskiyou is decent too, but I think I killed mine. The least hardy of the group. Marion is a close 2nd. I keep Newberry, and Marion in the garage during winter. Grown in 15 or 20 gallon fabric bags. Experimenting in ground with some tip rooted clones. I wrap the canes as fruitnut suggested in the past.Last year I didn’t have room for siskiyou and left it out, it died. I have a clone in the ground, not sure if it survived? They keep my figs and pomegranates company. Wyeberry and tayberry are in ground.

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Well, with a name like Black Satan, I wouldn’t expect the best of flavor. :grin:

I have Ouachita, Osage, Traveler and Freedom, I think Osage tastes better than the others, but that was just my first crop last year. Triple Crown beats them all in flavor and hardiness. Freedom seems to be the least hardy.

Indiana Berry and Nourse are carrying the new Caddo variety, and was considering adding this year. Ponca sounds intriguing too, but like you said, may be over hyped a bit.

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I myself don’t think it’s over hyped as they threw Caddo on the floor, and that is their latest and greatest. You would think they would not say it’s inferior to a berry not yet available. I think they could not contain their excitement. Plus they do mention it beat the other 20 in taste tests. To say it’s in it’s own class is very high praise. That could be hype, but the fact it beat all others in taste tests is just the results, not hype.
I was looking at Caddo too, not anymore! They hurt their own sales with that press release. Bob also mentions trying Caddo, and maybe not now…
If it truly beat Osage, it is a good one. I too think Triple Crown is about the best, but it too has the off flavor at times.

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If Ponca beats the taste of Osage, that’s saying something.

i wish someone would concentrate on developing a more cold hardy cultivar of blackberry. i emailed Dr. Clark a few years ago and he told me one of his colleges at Cornell was working on some more cold hardy selections. Canada has several developed in Nova Scotia but are unavailable over here. i have found a few non commercial ones that will grow here but aren’t big producers compared to more southern varieties.

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I agree, I thought of trying to breed myself but blackberry ploidy level is all over the place, which means they won’t cross without chemicals. Plus I never found a good hardy eastern blackberry worthy of improving. If you have decent results from Nelson or others, I could play around with it for a better blackberry. I’m going to practice with Tayberry and Marion which appear to be the same ploidy level (6 pairs of chromosomes). Make sure I got the techniques down. The time needed for scarification is one I need to figure out for blackberries.

They (Dr Clark) have said in this or another related article that Caddo and Ponca are a new kind of sweeter berry compared to their previous varieties. I think they are pretty excited about both.

He was talking about these berries having not only the sweetness, but aromatics. But that aspect can be affected by the growing environments, he said.

But, Ponca won’t be available to vendors until either next year or 2022. So, for now folks will have to settle for Caddo. Too bad it’s a floricane berry, so even if I get one this year, I’ll have to wait until 2021 to taste it.

I wonder what its hardiness is compared to the others, though. The ones I have haven’t impressed me in that aspect. They’re still young plants, so maybe that will improve as they age? They do send up a good number of canes, though, especially Freedom.

I didn’t get that from the articles I read. They flat out said Ponca is a grade above Caddo and Osage.

"Osage and Caddo blackberries were the first varieties to reflect that greater emphasis on sweetness, Clark said, and Ponca has raised the flavor bar to a new level."

That statement made me cancel any plans to buy Caddo. Sounds like a good one, but I only want one, so will wait for one at the new flavor bar level set by Ponca

In the articles they said it is available right now.

"Ponca is available to licensed propagators now, Clark said"

I’m going to wait. I don’t need different varieties, I need one good one in the traditional blackberry taste profile. Caddo too ripens a little later so I will have to pick during SWD season. Ponca ripens before the season starts, another giant huge plus for me.
If it works I will clone the crap out of it for a few more plants.

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I wish I could grow those. They look great so perhaps I should disregard the advice of the extension folks and give them a try. I had excellent luck with Raspberries in my hot/humid climate for 2 years before disease problems killed them. Never tried the Raspberries again.

I hear what you said and agree we have really raised the bar. Plus we know some of the Ark cultivars will work well in certain areas. You made your point. On raspberries try babba berry. Bay Laurel used to sell, still may?

@subdood_ky_z6b

If you want some variety I agree Caddo sounds like a winner too. I just have room for one. So need to be more selective.

I cover the trailing types as much as possible and spray them with wilt stop. Two of them I grow in containers as I doubt they will survive any other way (although I’m trying in ground too). So they are a bitch to grow here. Still I like them so much I keep trying. Newberry has worked well as it is productive and grows just fine in a 20 gallon container. So no the extension folks gave good advice. I just don’t want to grow something that is not going to be something I enjoy. I need them to be exceptional to fit with my goals and needs. Everybody has their reasons.

ill send you a few plants this spring if you want to try. did you ever grow out those canadian ones i sent you? berries are small but taste pretty good. those are at least z3b hardy.

I tried but they were not in good shape. I didn’t store them well. I have to try again sometime.
I have a better method of storing now. It was my fault they should have been fine.

That’s what I was talking about, so that is enough for me to try Caddo, and Ponca whenever it comes out. I agree Osage has a different flavor profile than the other UA berries. But that’s based on my first crop of just a small amount of berries.

I read that too, but none of the sites I visit have it now. Places like IB, Pense and Nourse have Caddo now, but not Ponca. I expect them and others to start selling it next year.

Well, if you have trouble there, I probably won’t have much better luck, considering all mine go in the ground. I’d like to try Marion or Boysen berries, but just don’t think they’d make it through the winters.

It takes a year to grow out. But vendors have it now.
Growing stuff it’s best to be patient, I am and waiting a year is not a big deal. I can wait. I do have blackberries, no need to settle. Mine are extremely good too.

Probably not, but I get enough to make it worth it. As mentioned I want them for crosses, but I have no expectations. Blackberries are hard to cross. I have one hybrid seedling right now that is very small, but curious to see what comes of it. I planted it in ground, see what happens? So yeah they need protection, but not that much, and it takes little time. I get a couple gallons of berries. I used to get about 10 gallons. But the quality of the berry was not there. Now I get 2 gallons of premium berries. I could add more plants, what I want is another in ground. I will protect Ponca too, as so far only proven to 1 or 2F before damage.The early ripening of Ponca is essential so that’s very cool.