Sweet, tart and tannic sounds fine to me. Thanks. I don’t mind persimmon that still has some tannin in it.
Generally speaking, consistently sub 2" fruit are considered crabs
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A while back I had a Hewes crab single variety cider from Albermarle which still stands as my favorite cider of all time. Their Harrison sv was also very good. Harrison is not a crab, but both apples deserve a place in any serious cider orchard.
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There are tons of domesticated and breeded crab apples. One of my favorites is Kerr, a child of Dolgo, another great crabapple. I also have Trailman and Alma Sweet, both bred apples that taste awesome. I’m hoping to add Hewes Virgina crab this year.
Trailman is an awesome spicy, slightly tart, sweet apple, great for juicing. Alma sweet is as the name implies super sweet, great for munching on. Kerr drops this gorgeous ruby red juice that I would love to turn into hard cider but my daughter that doesn’t like sweet cider drinks it all.
I mean Malus domestica vs other malus species. I’m not talking about whether they’ve been selected or bred or not, but what the root species was. In europe it seems mostly the term crab is used to describe non malus domestica apples like malus sylvestris, malus baccata, malus floribunda and so on.
For example - Dolgo is a selection of Malus Baccata. That would make Kerr a hybrid at least. Osman is also Malus Baccata and Trailman is Trail x Osman so another hybrid. I’d say the majority of crabs are selections of non malus domestica or hybrids.
Both Malus domestica and non-domestica can have fruit less than two inches, so that’s why I commented on the two rival definitions. I’d say people in different areas mean different things with the same term.
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Actually, Harrison is a crab, Campfield is not.
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Well every tree out there is a selection of something else, some just happen to be a natural selection while others are selected on purpose. Heck a big number of named apples you buy at the super market were wildlings that just happened to be fantastic apples. Granny Smith, Golden Delicious, they just happened to interbreed into something fantastic.
For me from a practical common sense approach anything sub 2" is a crab, just like any apple with a crab parent that is larger is an apple.
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I’ve asked a few others the same question about Franklin Cider’s size (2" or less).
I’ve received differing answers there as well. I’m guessing that with some thinning (natural or manipulated by man), decent soil, timely watering, and at least some training/pruning it is likely a smallish apple.
My two trees have been trained/pruned, are growing on some decent loam, and will get the same 3-4 sprays for insects/diseases as all of my other trees. That should answer my question as to whether they are sub 2" or not.
I never mentioned campfield.
In what sense is Harrison a crab? Not size, certainly. See my picture above with Harrison and Campfield side-by-side.
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You might want to look across the pond at some apples that are very near crab size but have high sg or insane brix for cider production. Margil, Golden Harvey for example. Also American Husk Sweet is like eating honey due to sweetness. Golden Nugget??? Another small high sugar from abroad.
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Thought I’d add a bit…since this topic got bumped up to the top.
I don’t have any blooms on Otterson, be interesting to see if it’s in group 1.
Veralma Simontornya, Redfield, Niedzwetzkyana I consider Group One bloomers.
Granny Smith a group Two. Most apples in the middle…being a ‘3’ if there are 5 groups.
Rome is the last bloomer of most commercial apples raised in America…and mostly in the Michigan to Virginia area I think.
I know that “Franklin” was discussed months ago, but I believe the Franklin Apple and the Franklin Cider Apple are different apples, but the names get confused.
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I think in the popular imagination, the term implies an apple that is inedible or subedible: misshapen, wormy, scabby, and foul tasting. That is what I was taught as a child. I even remember watching a popular kids game show in which one of the questions was about how most apples are actually poisonous. So its not surprising in some sense that nursery would be reticent to include the term “crab” in their marketing. Of course, you guys down in NJ, DE, MD area have a whole different set of associations with the word “crab”
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When perusing the Grin Ascension list I saw some very pretty little sizeable crabs. Sour as sin and soft. Thought about getting them just to feed to kids…lol
Another interesting term I’ve only heard from Americans is an “applecrab” rather than a crabapple. This is the offspring of crossing an apple and a crabapple.
I suppose this includes things like those red fleshed niedzwetzkyana crosses and such.
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yeah, I think the term is meant to distinguish small eating apples from ornamental or other forms of “crabs”. The term “lunchbox apples” has a similar meaning
We have small apples like Yates, Crimson Gold(Etter), Hall that are just barely larger then big crab apples; but have outstanding taste. We call them apple crabs.
You have them to. Margil, Gold Nugget, Golden Harvey drop right in that class. And would be relished Apple Crabs. John Standish and Geeveston Fanny too.
They are also heavy features of the Wildlife food plot improvement game. See Blue Hill Nurseries for superb Crabs, AppleCrabs and Apples preferred.
Game prefers nice sweet apples like ourselves unsurprisingly.
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Ryan at Bluehill is a great guy.
One of my personal favorites he sells is Smitty’s Seedling Smitty’s Seedling Apple Tree - Blue Hill Wildlife Nursery 
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Candy Crab seems like one to get. Blue Hill doesnt seem to sell scionwood. Anyone here growing it or know who might offer scions?