Ranking of varieties of cherries, only "high quality" varieties

Hi Eddie.
It’s very easy to achieve this type of structure in the trees.
If you notice, trees begin their primary branches at a height of about 65-70 centimeters (2.13-2.30 feet), so the total height of the tree is approximately 2.5 to 3 meters (8.2 to 9.8 feet). This makes all the work (pruning, treatments, harvesting, etc.) much easier without the need for stairs

It’s a very basic pruning system.

Regards
Jose

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…I strongly suggest you (and others) make use of Google Gemini which apparently extensively surveys the internet to provide good insight on issues over a wide area of conditions…recall Jose comes from an extremely favorable area for growing sweet cherries …anyway, here is the response that Google Gemini gives to the specific question of what varieties to recommend for late frost resistance and cracking resistance of sweet cherries in your area and among the varieties available to you…good luck …of course, YOU can ask Google Gemini to recommend OTHER varieties appropriate for your area and conditions and also where they might be obtained…go for it!..Beemster

(question posed to Google Gemini)
Please recommend cherry varieties to escape late spring frosts and that have good cracking resistance…area is Slovenia - town: Lesce…I have these varieties available: Areko, Henriette, Nimba, Carmen, Sweet Saretta, Sweet Gabriel and Sunburst.

(Response)

For Lesce, Slovenia, escaping late spring frosts and having good cracking resistance are crucial for successful cherry cultivation. Let’s analyze the available varieties based on these criteria:

Understanding the Challenges in Lesce, Slovenia:

  • Late Spring Frosts: Lesce is in a mountainous region, so late spring frosts are a real concern. Varieties that bloom later will have a better chance of avoiding frost damage to their blossoms and young fruit.
  • Cracking Resistance: Slovenia experiences rainfall, especially during the ripening season, making cracking resistance a high priority.

Analysis of Your Available Varieties:

Here’s a breakdown of each variety, focusing on bloom time and cracking resistance, which are key for your location:

  1. Areko (S):
  • Bloom Time: Late to very late. This is a significant advantage for escaping late spring frosts.
  • Cracking Resistance: Low sensitivity. While it can crack in the stalk cavity after heavy rain on ripe fruits, its overall cracking tolerance is considered good.
  • Recommendation: Highly Recommended. Its late bloom is a major plus for frost avoidance, and its good cracking tolerance makes it a strong contender.
  1. Henriette (S):
  • Bloom Time: Late. Another excellent choice for frost escape.
  • Cracking Resistance: Low sensitivity; described as “cracking tolerant.” This is one of its strongest features.
  • Recommendation: Highly Recommended. Similar to Areko, its late bloom and excellent cracking resistance make it very suitable for your conditions. It’s also noted for high firmness and good storage.
  1. Nimba:
  • Bloom Time: Very early.
  • Cracking Resistance: Good cracking resistance.
  • Recommendation: Not Recommended for Frost Escape. While it has good cracking resistance, its very early bloom time makes it highly susceptible to late spring frosts in your region.
  1. Carmen (S):
  • Bloom Time: Medium-late / Mid-late. This is better than early varieties, offering some frost avoidance.
  • Cracking Resistance: Average susceptibility to cracking, with some sources even stating high susceptibility when still greenish yellow.
  • Recommendation: Proceed with Caution. While its bloom time is decent for frost, its average to high cracking susceptibility could be a problem during wet ripening periods. If you prioritize cracking resistance, other options are better.
  1. Sweet Saretta:
  • Bloom Time: Early (1-2 days before Burlat).
  • Cracking Resistance: High susceptibility to cracking, with localized damage mostly at the top and bottom in years with heavy rainfall.
  • Recommendation: Not Recommended. Its early bloom and high cracking susceptibility make it a poor choice for your conditions.
  1. Sweet Gabriel:
  • Bloom Time: Medium-early.
  • Cracking Resistance: Information on specific cracking resistance for Sweet Gabriel is less explicit in easily accessible sources, but the general context of sweet cherry cracking studies suggests that fruit firmness and weight, and lower pH can influence susceptibility.
  • Recommendation: Proceed with Caution. Its medium-early bloom is better than very early, but without clear confirmation of strong cracking resistance, it might be risky.
  1. Sunburst:
  • Bloom Time: April to May (generally considered mid-season).
  • Cracking Resistance: Significantly resistant to cracking in rainy weather. It’s also self-fertile, which is a bonus.
  • Recommendation: Recommended. Its mid-season bloom offers a reasonable chance to avoid the very earliest frosts, and its significant cracking resistance is a strong positive. The self-fertility is also a valuable trait, simplifying pollination.

Top Recommendations for Lesce, Slovenia (from your available varieties):

Based on balancing late spring frost escape and good cracking resistance, I strongly recommend the following:

  1. Henriette (S): Excellent combination of late bloom and low cracking sensitivity.
  2. Areko (S): Very late bloom and good cracking tolerance.
  3. Sunburst: Mid-season bloom (reasonable frost escape) and significant cracking resistance, plus self-fertility.

Varieties to Avoid for your specific conditions:

  • Nimba: Too early blooming.
  • Sweet Saretta: Too early blooming and high cracking susceptibility.
  • Carmen (S): While bloom time is acceptable, its average to high cracking susceptibility makes it a less ideal choice if cracking is a major concern.
  • Sweet Gabriel: Lacks clear data on cracking resistance, and its medium-early bloom might still be susceptible to some frosts.

Important Considerations for Planting in Lesce:

  • Site Selection: Even with late-blooming varieties, choose sites with good air drainage to minimize frost pockets. Slopes are often better than low-lying areas.
  • Pollination: While Sunburst is self-fertile, Areko and Henriette are self-sterile. You will need compatible pollinators for them. Areko (S) can pollinate Henriette (S), and Henriette (S) can pollinate Areko (S) and Regina. This means planting both Areko and Henriette together would be a good strategy for mutual pollination and diversified ripening times.
  • Local Expertise: Always consult with local Slovenian agricultural extension services or experienced cherry growers in your area (Lesce/Gorenjska region) for the most precise and up-to-date recommendations. They can offer insights into microclimates and specific challenges in your immediate vicinity.

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Welcome to Gemini, your personal AI assistant

…here is a very useful chart that lists a large number of sweet cherry varieties with blooming order / ripening times relative to Bing / compatible pollinizers / and Pollen Group…enjoy

Beemster, yes, but Gemini forgets a few details:

  • Areko and Henriette are two good varieties, but they ripen at exactly the same time.
    Both varieties need to be harvested when they’re absolutely ripe because:
  • Areko harvested prematurely is sour
  • Henriette harvested prematurely is bitter

I have both varieties, I like them both, but I prefer Henriette

  • Sumburst, this cherry variety, is not suitable for cherry lovers, as it’s large, sweet, and has a very good flavor, but Gemini forgot to mention that it has a terrible soft texture in the mouth (only 50 Durofel), and as they would say in my town, " Sunburst it’s more soft than turkey shit."

Finding cherries with all the optimal qualities is a real headache :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

These three are great:

  • Santina
  • Sabrina
  • Sofia (SPC-106)

Regards
Jose

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Yes, I know AI generated answers are fine, but they are not “first hand experience”. The thing is that they gather info from multiple sources on the web and those sources can be missleading (like I found info Carmen can be pollinated by Areko and Henriette for example, which is not true)… And then AI is serving you that info.

This is why I prefer someone with experience to tell me what to plant in my case :smiley:

…just checked…Jose’s direct quote to me was: “I’ll show you a photo of my Black Star (I have two trees of this variety) and you’ll understand why I say it’s very productive.”…sounds unequivocal…sorry…but it was NOT his Black Star…at best… regrettable…at worst…deceiving …just not my style…a simple disclaimer that this web photo is an example of what can happen with this variety under ideal pollination conditions would have been more informative.

Hi Jose.
…just curious…are those irrigation lines on the ground in your cherry orchard?..if not, what are they?..thanks

Yes, as always, it’s a pleasure to answer you.

Those 32 mm polyethylene hoses are the irrigation lines.
At my business (restaurant-hotel), since it’s outside my town, the law requires us to have a wastewater treatment plant.
Once the water it’s treated, I use it to irrigate the fruit trees.
The law requires that once the water is treated, it must pass through a green filter ( trees).

Just yesterday, I fixed two breaks that had occurred in an irrigation line when I used the weed cutting machine a few days ago.

Best regards
Jose

Look, Beemster, this is the process.

The dirty water from the company arrives at the wastewater treatment plant, where bacteria do their work. It is then decanted and sent to a sand filter and a second activated carbon filter.

Once the water is perfect, it is distributed to the right or left of the orchard from the final tank, using a 63 millimeter polyethylene pipe.

From the main 63 millimeter pipe, 32 millimeter pipe lines come out for each fruit trees line.

And from the 32 millimeter line, a small piece of 16 millimeter polyethylene pipe comes out for each tree, with a small key to regulate the water output for irrigation .

Very reliable installation, since in drip irrigation systems, if the water is very calcareous, the drippers become clogged and nitric acid or phosphoric acid must be applied to unclog them. With these small irrigation valves on each tree, there is no problem with calcareous obstructions.

I don’t just grow cherry trees, I grow all kinds of stone and pome fruit (apple and pear trees), seedless grapes, persimmons, etc.

Regards
Jose

Or just drive a piece of rebar between the wires of the trap in a way that makes tipping it impossible for a coon. Also use spring-door traps with a safety door. I think this one is big enough.

For people moving the coons the safety door is unexpendable, but I shoot them in the forehead with a highly powered pellet gun. The door makes it easier to unload the corpse. On a bad coon year I may have to execute over 30 of them but populations have been light for the last couple of years.

You don’t want to use a bait that will attract any animals you don’t wish to trap. The pros around here use marshmallows and I’ve used them for many years. Use a couple torn apart to lead them into the trap. You only need about 5 marshmallows in the trap placed in a ziplock sandwich bag with a thin stake driven through it to hold it at the end of the trap past the trip plate.

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That’s quite the set-up José!

Meanwhile from some rain overnight to this morning, I received about a month and a half of your annual average rainfall!

34 mm…

…you said…“Areko (late flowering season, compatibility group II, alleles S1-S3) and Henriette (late flowering season, compatibility group XX, alleles S1-S6) are pollination compatible.”

“Carmen (mid-flowering season, compatibility group V, alleles S4-S5) is not pollination compatible with Areko or Henriette”

…what am I missing? Henrietta and Areko share a S1 allele but I guess they should be at least partially compatible if neither contributes the S1 allele and the blooming period overlaps some…Carmen does not share an allele with either Henrietta or Areko…they should be compatible…yes??..or only no if the bloom period has zero overlap which seems very unlikely…apparently the bloom period of all three varieties are in some question…Areko and Hernrietta are are both late bloomers…Carmen is considered mid season by some…later by others… or so says Google Gemini…specific location and climate data is critical.

Dear Jose, what do you know about Griotella cherries? Thank you.

You forgot to mention the small detail that you grafted Areko and Henriette this spring, and they haven’t produced any yet.

How can you say you like both without trying them?
Did someone tell you this, or you read this in a document or catalog?

Jose, you don’t even tell the truth to your doctor :rofl:

Have you tried either? Regardless of what you claim about José, I would be interested in hearing a second opinion about these varieties.

I grafted Areko this spring, I guess i will try some cherries next year

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And you forgot the detail that the Henriette and Areko cherry trees (2 trees of each variety) grafted this spring are for two new cherry espaliers, but the cuttings come from trees already established in the orchard.

Very easy, because they come from a professional plantation owned by a close friend, one of the largest cherry producers in the Aragon region. He told me that both are excellent, especially Henriette, but that both must be harvested fully ripe. If harvested prematurely, Henriette is a little bitter and Areko a little acidic (these defects disappear when they reach their optimum ripeness).
And notice how curious it is, it corresponds to the information on the data sheets for both varieties.

You know , where I tried Royal Apache years ago, which was the first plantation of this variety in Spain, or Epik-16.
And where I’ll try Petronila, Nipama, or SPC-342.
By the way, I graft these three varieties using the T-Bud system in a few days.


This seems rude to me at the very least, but coming from you, a thirty-year-old kid with little education, you can expect anything.

Let’s see, Kiko.
You know cherry tree physiology perfectly (or you should).
What you’re saying is “LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE.”

If you graft the cherry variety onto a rootstock and perform annual pruning in the vegetative stage to form a tree using the KGB or Spanish Bush system, it takes at least 3 years to test the first cherries, and with a lot of luck.

The fastest way to test a variety is to graft onto an adult cherry branch, and even then, the minimum is 3 years.

Why am I so certain?

Why does a cherry tree produce its first fruit on 2-year-old wood, onto thick branches.
It’s “impossible” to achieve this from one year to the next, because a cherry tree doesn’t behave that way.

The peach tree, nectarine, or flat peach, does bear fruit on one-year-old wood, but the cherry tree does NOT.

Please, if you know a method to make a cherry tree bear fruit in one year, tell me, for God’s sake, so we can patent the system and get rich :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:.

Best regards
Jose

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If all goes well tomorrow, I’ll have surprises for all you cherry lovers.

Best regards
Jose

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…you said “(like I found info Carmen can be pollinated by Areko and Henriette for example, which is not true)” …what information and from who did you base your conclusion on??,please be specific…thanks

Of course you can pick cherries the year after grafting, as well as apricots, for example. These will be few, but enough to try.

I know perfectly well that they produce cherries on two-year-old wood, but they can also produce a few cherries on the cross the first year after grafting. You should know this, Jose :slight_smile: