Hi,
My neighbor has a persimmon tree that is non astringent when they ripen to a bright orange. The tree appears to have no grafting scars. The fruit is about twice the size of chocolate. A picture is included of partially ripened fruit. We have had so far about 2 weeks of frost nights. Most leaves are now shedding. I would like a hint at what varieties it may be in order to determine best harvest practice; ie should they be harvested before frost?
Please advise if you can recognize this one
Dennis
Kent, wa
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They appear to be Saijo. I’m about 2 hours north of you, near Anacortes, WA and my 10-year old Saijo has same lobed fruit at same yellow/green stage. Saijo is an astringent variety. Only when tomato-like soft will it lose astringency. Fruit can ripen on the tree or on the counter. I’ve had a couple of frosts here, too, but temp for the next week looks like typical PNW gloom without frost so I’m leaving on tree. On the web, you’ll find many suggestions for removing astringency. This season I’m going to try the CO2 soda stream treatment! The procedure: Fill sturdy plastic bag half full with persimmons, squeeze top of bag to remove air, fill bag with CO2 from soda stream. Close tightly. Put bag in bucket with lid. Leave for 48-72 hrs at room temp. Note…I haven’t tried this before and am a little skeptical. This CO2 treatment supposedly renders persimmons firm without astringency. Ripening with CO2 is used commercially with persimmons but I don’t know if this DIY will replicate!
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Hi Christine,
Thanks for your opinion.
I have thought it may be the same. These are not astringent when eaten directly off the tree. Today I pulled the ripest one off. Was not astringent but not really very sweet. Was soft rather than crisp, so I am wondering if I should pick all now and try to ripen indoors to retain some crispness? Since you are close do you have other fruits that you may be willing to do scion swaps? I have grapes, apples, plums, pawpaw, persimmon, cherries, and frost peach.
Dennis
Sounds like the fruit is too large to be saijo, plus it’s more pronounced with its lobes than Saijo gets. Could be Hao River or maybe Giombo. But are you saying it’s non-astringent? Usually the graft union on persimmons is fairly obvious. So I wouldn’t rule out that possibility either.
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Dennis:
I may be mistaken about your tree being Saijo. My persimmon (I bought tree as a Saijo, but maybe it’s not!) definitely looks similar with marked lobes, though perhaps fruit not quite as large. Right off tree the fruit is only non-astringent when jelly soft. Thanks for scion offer. I’d love a scion of that persimmon, since it’s ripening so well in our borderline climate. I have lots of apples, pears, plums, peaches, and cherries. My favorite varieties are apple-Rubinette, pear-Contender, plum-Imperial Epineuse, and peach-Betty in case you’d like any of those.
Chris
My tree’s are about 10 years old, normally they are big in size,with a drought they tend to be smaller. You be the judge as far as taste is concerned, I like them a lot.Astringent .
Hi Chris,
I would love to exchange scions some day send me your email to dennisdkent@aol.com, and I will respond with the types and varieties of the fruits I have and can provides scions and rooted plants in exchange.
Dennis
Hi,
Thanks for your suggestions. I looked at the two you mentioned. From their pictures, they appear to have three lobes. These have four distinct lobes and are nearly the size of Hachiya, and appear to be a bit more pointed than Hao River or Giombo. See pic comparing with Hachiya
Dennis
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This is my Saijo.
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Don’t look like Saijo. Saijo,s are cone shape!
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Yes, The lobe design is different and fruit size seems smaller. For several year I thought we had a Saijo, but now I am uncertain of the variety, due to its size and shape. Here is my relative size pic w/ quarter. Quite a difference. Another interesting fact: My neighbor had this tree just shortly after 1993 when I developed my lot. His first fruit occurred just two years ago! Year after year he kept telling me he wanted to just cut it down, but I suggested that he give it more time, so when the tree was about 17-18 years old, it bore its first flowers and fruit to our surprise! Now each year it bears on prior years wood
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When your Saijo is ripe, what other persimmon would you compare it to for flavor, crispness, and sweetness?
Dennis
Actually don’t like the mushy sweet taste that, to me, still retains a hint of astringency. Am looking for an alternate ripening method, maybe CO2 or Hoshigati. I planted Fuyu, Matsumoto Was, and Izu in ground this spring with intention of covering with 10X20 plastic gh for spring and summer months. Don’t know whether this will be enough to boost heat units for these non-astringent. Climate just too maritime here!
You may have a valid point, lack of sun power equals less sugar, I have tried growing Muscadines since my other grapes do very well here, especially during dry summers, but so far the two varieties I have will not even set blossom after four years. So this year I ordered a new seedless variety that is recommended for northern climates, will see if they do any better, and if so will graft the older vines with this new variety. I try many ideas, some fail miserably, persimmon may be one of those. So far I would not recommend Chocolate to anyone, as it never gets very sweet. There are some people in the region that boast about them, but no luck here. How many years have you been trying persimmon?
Dennis
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Vincent_8B has a great pic from Nov 9th of 2 persimmons side by side with quarter as reference… Although the pic is not labeled, from reading the text I think it’s Giombo on left and Saijo on right. Picture from Vincent_8B:
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@ Vincent_8B
It would be good to hear from Vincent, an Asian friend told me recently that she thought it may be Giombo, but she was not certain. The pictures of Giombo I find online do not resemble this picture showing distinct lobes; however, the size is comparable to my neighbor’s fruit. Also his tree does not exceed 5’ high x about 10’ spread, online sources describe Giombo as growing to 15’ with very sweet fruit. My neighbors fruit is barely sweet. Perhaps your idea of creating a greenhouse over it would improve fruit quality, so I may suggest we do that just to experiment a bit. Anyway Chris if you wish to obtain scions, send me your email contact and we will correspond off website for details.
Thanks
Dennis
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for your pic. Your picture does look more like the ones I see online for Giombo, it is difficult to ascertain if your fruit has distinct lobes, do they look more like my neighbor’s when they are only beginning to ripen?
Also we are in Zone 8a so I am curious to know your zone since your fruit is clearly more ripened than ours here.
Dennis
7a, Northwest Ark. Conditions has a lot to do with color, some years lighter. This year they were lighter. In normal conditions they start out with pronounce lobes, with decent rains they get filled out, lobes gets flattened.
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