As in interesting aside, the colder it gets the more efficient solar panels are at producing electricity. Engineering a solar power system requires taking this effect into consideration as the increase in voltage at lower temperatures can drive inverters over their safe limits.
Plants are not solar panels and have a pretty clear cutoff point at which rubisco transport becomes disabled for many species. That point is about 45F for tomatoes. It is lower for many trees such as apple and pear.
Don’t forget to draw in natives/flower beds to complement your amazing orchard. There’s a whole lot of native flowers and shorter woodland plants that would love to take up residence on the unused real estate of that back shady property line.
So Bridgeport on Aug 1 the sun at noon hits 66.7 degrees altitude giving shadows a length off a 60’ pole of:
60 / tan(66.7) = 25.8 feet.
Bush cherry will be already harvested by then and Gooseberry will be harvesting. Sunrise is at compass heading 65 degrees (25 degrees north of due east) and sunset is 25 degrees north of due west. The sun makes a curvaceous U-shaped arc through the sky lasting 14 hours 12 minutes.
See my harvest schedule for the early harvesters at:
Also, you can have a shed and store scrap building materials away from the roadway’s sight back there.
True, but I knew you were in Southern CA and the map just confirmed my reasonable assumption 
We’ll have to disagree on this one
Yes, I’ve seen some really good generation days in March even though there isn’t as much sun as the later months. Roof temps can get pretty hot in summer, which drives down efficiency.
How fast does it start working again? We’ve been getting nights below 45F and if it takes too long to restart I should just pick my remaining tomatoes. Tonight is down to 39F, though the 10 day forecast doesn’t have any hard frosts into November.
I planted some late corn this year, as the guy at the farmer’s market is usually done by mid-October. The expected harvest date for mine is 10/27, though it will probably take a bit longer given the chilly temps.
Flower beds are something to replace with productive space. Where it is sunny enough, they can be converted into garden beds. In shady areas, grass is fine, if it will grow (or I can mow the weeds…). Actually, it probably isn’t a bad idea to have an open patch of grass. It would give me space to be able to spread out and fold tarps, nets, etc.
I’ve actually been going around my current yard and figuring out tree-line angles. The shady part which isn’t that productive has some 50 deg shade to the E and 30-35 deg for the rest. In that spot muscadines produce a few handfuls of fruit on a big vine. In an area where it is 30-35 for most exposure (maybe a brief 40 deg on the E), the vine is somewhat productive (though less than in a sunnier spot). Here’s the somewhat productive vine (and a few grapes have already been picked).
To put things into feet from the back fence (assuming a 50’ tree height, even though there are sections where it is 75):
30 feet is 59 deg. So, only OK for gooseberry/currants.
50 feet is 45 deg. Better, but iffy. Maybe Black Currants (I value them higher than the others, as they make great jam)
70 feet is 35 deg. We’re into part-sun. Maybe start to put some muscadines, hazelnuts, sour cherries.
100 feet is 26 deg. (8:30-5:30 sun in mid-Aug). And actually better than that, as it is far enough away that other compass directions will start to matter a lot.
So by 100’ I can start to put the full-sun stuff like jujubes and stonefruit (assuming I don’t avoid ORR spots). That means that the northern half of the backyard should be good for most trees.
It would be nice if I could just dedicate rows to certain types, like a row of peaches, row of pears, etc. Instead, there will likely be bands, like the first 2 trees in 5 rows are peaches, followed by 2 plums in each of 5 rows, etc. I should still try to group things enough that I can spray like trees and boost cross-pollination (where needed).
In case anyone is interested, you can use the windows calculator to calculating the angles based on the height and distance.
Tan(shade angle) = tree height/ distance
50 trees / 100 feet away = .5
To find the angle where the tangent is 0.5, use the arc tangent (arctan). You can get there by clicking on the “trigonometry” dropdown (while in scientific mode):
Arctan is denoted by tan to the -1 power (even though it isn’t really a negative exponent):
The 21 degree tilt on the property means that there is only 4 degrees difference between the fence line and where the sun comes up. So, first thing in the morning it might avoid the fence-line, but the sun is only 3-4 degrees above the horizon when it crosses the fence-line (and there are generally distant objects blocking those first few degrees). So, in your example, at 25.8 feet from the fence, the first light would be in the afternoon, after the sun passes the fence-line to the SW, on it’s way N. The fence-line continues far beyond the property, so the sun needs to get almost 21 degrees South of West, 249 deg, which I see happening around 3:45pm. From that point, until dusk, the only blockages would be my own plantings, the fence (about 7 degrees of blockage 1/3 of the way into the yard, cutting off the last hour), and distant trees/houses. So, maybe 3:45 to 7pm at best. It might work for gooseberries and some types of raspberries. I had some wild Wineberries produce with almost no Sun (maybe an hour or two in the morning when I was sleeping…), under an overhang on the North side of my house.
I’ve often picked sour cherries in late June, so the May to early June timeframe is when the fruit is growing. And Aug 1st is roughly equivalent to May 13th (August 1st is 1 month and 9 days after June 21 and May 13th is that same amount of time before it), so this calculation still has some relevance for sour cherries.
Those are both great ideas for the last 30’ of the yard, along with the compost pile. And it occurs to me that with a property of this size, I’ll also need a brush pile and a rock pile…
It’s also where you’ll store:
Your riding lawnmower.
The trailer for your mower in which you haul leaves, mulch, and manure.
Your snowmobile or ATV.
Your friend’s sailboat in winter.
I don’t have any of those things, but I may decide to get a rider at some point. For now, I don’t mind pushing the mower around- it’s good to stay active
Your “50 foot” from border estimate is way too conservative. Even on Sept 1st you’ve got 9:30am to 2pm with the sun above 45 degrees. Your property line runs from compass heading 248 degree west to 68 degree east. Even as late as Sept 01 in Bridgeport, the sun azimuth is shining north of the line from 3:30pm onward, giving several hours of direct sun per day directly into the southeast property corner. That’s fine for early harvesters. Sept 1st is 70 days from solstice. You can plant 20 feet (or less) from the property line, but put your early harvesters and part shade plants in the south plots. I get a nice harvest off Prunus besseyi that is always in shade by 3pm in summer and has no direct light in October. About 25 feet north of sugar maple trees. And they definitely get full sun in the first hours of summer because in summer the sun azimuth is north of due east for several hours at a latitude this far north.
Our mid-summer sun rises in the north and sets in the north; in the morning ours rises to a 34 degrees elevation before it even reaches an azimuth of compass heading due east, having spent the first (and last) 3.5 hours shining from a northward angle. That means our sun shines for 7 hours from the north on the longest day of summer.
Use the naval observatory app at:
| Column 1 | Column 2 | Column 3 |
|---|---|---|
| Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun | ||
| New Haven, CT | ||
| N 41° 19’, W 72° 56’ | ||
| 2025-09-01 | ||
| Zone: 5.0 hours West of Greenwich | ||
| Time | Altitude | Azimuth (E of N) |
| 04:30 | -9.6° | 70.2° |
| 05:00 | -4.2° | 75.4° |
| 05:30 | 1.6° | 80.4° |
| 06:00 | 7.0° | 85.3° |
| 06:30 | 12.6° | 90.2° |
| 07:00 | 18.2° | 95.2° |
| 07:30 | 23.7° | 100.5° |
| 08:00 | 29.2° | 106.1° |
| 08:30 | 34.5° | 112.2° |
| 09:00 | 39.6° | 119.0° |
| 09:30 | 44.3° | 126.7° |
| 10:00 | 48.6° | 135.6° |
| 10:30 | 52.1° | 145.8° |
| 11:00 | 54.8° | 157.5° |
| 11:30 | 56.4° | 170.3° |
| 12:00 | 56.6° | 183.8° |
| 12:30 | 55.6° | 197.0° |
| 13:00 | 53.4° | 209.2° |
| 13:30 | 50.2° | 220.1° |
| 14:00 | 46.2° | 229.5° |
| 14:30 | 41.7° | 237.7° |
| 15:00 | 36.7° | 244.8° |
| 15:30 | 31.5° | 251.2° |
| 16:00 | 26.1° | 257.0° |
| 16:30 | 20.5° | 262.4° |
| 17:00 | 14.9° | 267.5° |
| 17:30 | 9.3° | 272.4° |
| 18:00 | 3.8° | 277.3° |
| 18:30 | -1.9° | 282.3° |
| 19:00 | -7.4° | 287.3° |
Worry about your southwest corner. That’s where you put the shed and stuff. Your southeast corner of the property gets several hours of late day sunlight into early Sept. Your southwest corner is looking mighty shady.
Here, this image shows that on Aug 01, the sun rises in the northeast over the Connecticut coast. From Bridgeport, the sunrise occurs over Milford. The sun lines up with your property line at 3:41pm. The shadow off a 50 ft tree is 44.58 ft at that time. From Bridgeport, the sun sets over Ridgefield in the northwest.
It’s like I said earlier. In summer the sun draws a giant letter U across the sky.
Thanks. Suncalc looks like a good resource. I’ve been getting altitude and compass heading for the sun from Shademap.app, which seems a similar resource.
I think our numbers are pretty close, though the fence-line is 249 to 69 (1 degree off), as it is tilted by 21 degrees though it doesn’t make that much difference.
Yes, I see the 50 foot line getting 4.5 mid-day hours on Sep 1st and an hour or two of afternoon sun, depending on other things. I’ll probably be conservative with the sun, and maybe put black currants there, but may add in a few others. Definitely not full sun though. I may re-evaluate once the trees are removed and I can see and measure everything by hand.
The more I think about it, the more space I plan to put between each tree. At my current house most things are on 12’ rows, with 5-10 feet between trees (often 5 originally with some removed).
I had been planning 15 foot rows, but I think I may do 18’, by removing a row (from 9 to 8). And alternating the trees to get that diamond pattern (at least where the rows have similar in-row spacing) seems a good idea as well.
Here’s a pic of another forum member, whose orchard I visited today. He’s got his trees beautifully pruned to stay at 8’, but we both agreed that the in-row spacing of 10’ (15’ between rows) is too tight. He suggest 15x20’, though as noted above I am leaning toward 15x18’, at least for peaches and plums.
I’m still on the fence between 11’ or 12’ centers N-S and 15’ or 16’ between rows. If you saw my post, I said that on paper the minimum to fit 2 bush cherries/seaberries with 2 blueberries/haskap into a plot before you start scrunching is 11x11’ plus 3 more feet between rows. I plan to cap top things 8-9’ because I don’t visually like the look of only 7’ high trees, but I don’t want to spray above 10’.
The local permaculture people wanted me to take the extra feet and plant native perennial prairie flowers that attract predator insects to eat aphids and to plant mostly-native perennial “green manure” nitrogen-fixing plants to mow down as compost at the end of summer. They said 12’x15’ was good for our area. We have heavy fungal pressure.
My rows are also at a skewed compass heading to parallel a crooked road. It’s only a little less than yours. A farmer who visited me said off-north orientation was not a major factor, the shade was.
Did you see my “Before Planning” notes?
I think most of my berries will be in the part-sun portion of the yard where the spacing may be a bit more irregular. I may also put a few sour cherry in the full sun area. I’ve been having a lot of trouble with them flowering, but not setting fruit. I suspect blossom blight, but even fungicides haven’t resolved it (maybe not enough). So, I’ve been thinking of contracting a frame with a clear plastic roof over a few sour cherry bushes. During harvest, I could toss a net over it (always an issue with birds) and solve 2 problems at once. So, maybe a double-wide sour cherry can take the full space of a normal tree, and thus reside in the 18’ wide row area.
I first raised fruit trees in the coastal hills above Malibu and I never tended an orchard anywhere there other than within a few miles of Malibu proper, but it is hard for me to believe that during the growing season you don’t get a lot more sun where you are than those of us in the humid regions. Hours of blue sky days with temps above 60 degrees is my idea of the key significance in ripening fruit. I know there are many other variables in play, but the fact that you have that “marine layer” probably would give your trees protection from excess summer heat that would expand their ability to harvest solar energy.
That was my take… but then I asked CHAT and was surprised by the answer. The grass is not always greener… Ultimately I may be in the sweet spot. CHAT seems to verify your take on the subject, albeit using different data.
So how does my location compare as far as available useful light to central Oceanside CA
Excellent question — and one that most growers don’t ask, though it’s fundamental to explaining why Hudson Valley fruit flavor can rival or even exceed West Coast fruit in some years despite fewer total sun hours.
You’re really asking: “How much sunlight can a tree actually use for photosynthesis (PAR in the optimum temperature range) in my climate versus Oceanside, California?”
Let’s walk through that step-by-step with actual climatological and physiological context.
| Variable | Hudson Valley, NY (Zone 6) | Oceanside, CA (coastal San Diego County) |
|---|---|---|
| Latitude | 41.3 ° N | 33.2 ° N |
| Summer daylight length | ~15 h (June solstice) | ~14 h |
| Average July max temp | 84 °F (29 °C) | 73 °F (23 °C) |
| Average July RH (afternoons) | 55–70 % | 65–75 % (marine layer influence) |
| Average summer VPD | 1.2–1.6 kPa (humid) | 0.8–1.0 kPa (humid-mild) |
| Annual clear-sky sunshine fraction | ~58–60 % | ~70 % overall, but many mornings cloudy |
| Annual solar irradiance (global) | ≈ 4.2 kWh/m²/day | ≈ 5.7 kWh/m²/day |
(Solar data from NREL / NASA POWER; temperature and humidity from NOAA normals 1991-2020.)
So Oceanside receives more total sunlight energy, but because its temperatures are cool, a larger proportion of that light occurs below the optimum thermal range for many fruit trees.
Conversely, the Hudson Valley gets fewer photons overall, but for much of June–August your canopy temperatures sit inside or just above the photosynthetic optimum for peaches, plums, and even apples on most mornings and evenings.
If we multiply daily solar radiation by the fraction of time when canopy temperatures are in the photosynthetic “sweet spot,” we can estimate physiologically usable light.
| Location | Typical midsummer daylight hours within 65–80 °F range | Estimated % of daily PAR efficiently used |
|---|---|---|
| Hudson Valley | ~8–9 h (morning + evening) | ≈ 65 % |
| Oceanside | ~11 h but often 60–70 °F (below optimum) | ≈ 55 % |
So apples may actually use light more efficiently in your climate than in coastal Southern California, where mild temps suppress photosynthesis rate even under bright light.
| Location | Hours within optimum range | % of daily PAR efficiently used |
|---|---|---|
| Hudson Valley | ~6–8 h most days | ≈ 60 % |
| Oceanside | ~9–10 h (often ideal) | ≈ 75 % |
Here the advantage flips — Oceanside’s steadier warmth near 80 °F and high light means peaches and plums can photosynthesize near their thermal optimum most of the day, though marine clouds limit early-morning radiation.
| Limiting factor | Hudson Valley | Oceanside, CA |
|---|---|---|
| Spring | Cloud cover, low temps; photosynthesis limited until May. | Marine layer keeps light low mornings; otherwise mild. |
| Summer | Excellent light but sometimes >86 °F (apples overheat); humidity limits VPD. | High light but often 72 °F; temps slightly below optimum for Prunus. |
| Autumn | Clear, cool — ideal for color/sugar finish. | Warm, sometimes dry; late crops can desiccate if unirrigated. |
This helps explain why Hudson Valley apples and many stone fruits develop stronger color and higher sugar-acid balance — your clear, cool autumn maximizes photosynthetic efficiency and minimizes respiration losses at night.
Oceanside’s mild nights preserve acids but sometimes yield lower total sugar (less daily photosynthetic drive).
Using modeled PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) and an efficiency factor tied to temperature suitability (Lakso 1994, Flore & Layne 1996):
| Location | Mean summer PAR (mol m⁻² day⁻¹) | Est. thermal efficiency factor | “Usable PAR” (mol m⁻² day⁻¹) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hudson Valley | 48 mol m⁻² day⁻¹ | 0.70 | ≈ 34 |
| Oceanside | 55 mol m⁻² day⁻¹ | 0.65 | ≈ 36 |
So your site delivers nearly the same quantity of physiologically useful light as coastal southern California — despite roughly 20 % less total solar energy.
Both climates are humid enough to reduce excessive transpiration losses; but the type of humidity differs:
Net effect: both climates “self-moderate” photosynthetic stress, which is why neither shows much chronic photoinhibition in summer, unlike the arid interior valleys of CA.
Despite lower annual sunshine, your Hudson Valley orchards operate near the physiological sweet spot for photosynthesis much of the season, while Oceanside’s coastal mildness gives more total photons but somewhat less thermal alignment — the two environments end up delivering nearly the same “useful light” to the trees.
Another south plot option: Native wild-type Michigan Huckleberry / Black Huckleberry (Gaylussacia-baccata) is an understory groundcover plant that does not want full sun. Not to be confused with annual and perennial types west of the Rockies. Harvests early August.
I see them for sale at WildJuniperNursery, TrippleBrookFarm, DirectNativePlants, Fedco Seeds.
The answer is somewhere in the middle. The marine layer is real and the resolution of your map doesn’t accurately pick it up at his location. But with that said, his is still higher than anywhere in CT.
Irradiance is not the ultimate issue- it’s more complicated than that. Fruit trees use the light differently at different times of the year and with different air temperatures. The most important and useful photosynthesis occurs in the 2-3 weeks before ripening- especially with stone fruit. In the humid regions, this is an extremely variable equation and makes growing fruit more exciting and sometimes more disappointing. But then, a lot of mid summer stonefruit, at least peaches and nects coming from the more eastern valleys of CA by mid-summer suck because of excessive heat and low humidity practically cooking the fruit on the tree. That’s where the marine layer could be very helpful.
Interesting possibility. I may give it a try. There is a nearby road named after Huckleberries, so I suspect there were some growing here naturally at one point.
The trees haven’t been cut yet, but I was going through the woods mentally subtracting them and seeing what angle the remaining trees would have at various compass angles. Then, using the tools to see what the impact would be at various times of the year. The spots 40’ from the S (both E and W) are 5-6 hours of sun on Aug 1st. By September 1st they are only 2-3. But, I suspect that is enough for some of the shade tolerant fruit.
When you get up to the neighbors fence, about 100’ from the South border, there is 8-9 hours of sun in both Aug and September. And as you get closer to the house, it is almost 100% sun. The (future) 6’ fence and the other trees will likely supply most of the shade. Probably only at dawn and dusk, as long as I space things well.
