Very interesting Scott. When I looked at Proceedings of the Peninsula Horticultural Society (Eastern Shore MD), Carthouse/Romanite (aka Gilpin) showed up again and again in orchards here of the late 1800’s.
Traditionally, any idea what Gilpin would be blended with? Love someday to taste a Harrison/Campfield blend. I grafted Campfield at a friend’s big cider orchard here two weeks ago who already has Harrison. So we wait.
Do you have Harrison? It’s so upright, trying to keep those crotch angles less severe is going to be a pain. I’m hoping I’ll have some blossoms and fruit this year.
A friend grows Harrison at my recommendation. I hear it’s a beast of a grower.
My main problem with Harrison has been the trees dying. It looks like I lost another one over the winter. They are on MM111 and none of the trees around are dying. The one that just died was upright but the other mature one has spread out well.
There isn’t much written about blending and there is even less about Gilpin… at least that I have found. One thing I noticed in looking over Coxe for the above is he mentions that commercial producers don’t often blend due to the difficulty of the non-overlapping ripening, but he recommends it for home cider makers. So, blending might not have been very common in Coxe’s time for commercial ciders.
OK, I sense contradictions to my preconceived notions of antique cider-making. In my previously self-consistent and unchallenged view, the object was strong cider, meaning dry. I always thought it had to ferment in unheated sheds while the weather outdoors was “warm enough.” Then it would “keep” through cold weather until consumed. Once dry enough, bad bacteria such as E. coli were inhibited.
The risks of fermentation failures such as becoming “ropey” and acquiring off flavors were reduced by quick fermentation. As the prevailing weather cooled, the progress toward vinegar was delayed by cold storage. Freeze distillation of apple jack was encouraged at the risk of concentrating the wrong kinds of alcohols.
Fermentation would not be possible if cider were pressed too late in the season. Under unheated storage it would freeze solid before fermenting.
I am pretty sure that fermentation was often done in un-heated but sealed cellars. Here is yet another quote from Coxe confirming this (I am giving a longer quote just because it has other interesting tidbits in it):
The time which will elapse before the vinous fermentation commences, is very uncertain in warm weather, and in cider made from weak or immature fruit, it commences in a few hours but if the fruit is ripe, and the weather cold, it will be delayed for a week, and sometimes for a month : the fermentation of the exquisite crab cider, blended with the Harrison and Winesap, of which I have in another place made mention, was never farther apparent, than in the swelling of the liquor out of the bung-hole, without any sensible effervescence and even that did not take place till near the Spring, although the cider was in a tight cellar, secured by glazed windows. In general, the fermentation is delayed in proportion to the clearness and strength of the cider.
In reading further, Coxe also mentions fermentations done outside or in sheds. So I think all three methods were used back then depending on the season.
That would be about 50°F to 60°F and explains the Old Timers’ success, but I have trouble picturing it. The cellars I’ve seen the Midwest were very shallow with little headroom. I can’t see a rack of 50gal barrels in the middle of the floor like in the movies. On the other hand, I’ve been surprised at how cozy a barn full of hay, cattle, and cattle manure can be, so perhaps there is where cider was made.
Crab, Harrison and Winesap blend. Interesting. Also occurs to me that long ago a family might need to make cider in installments all winter due to limited barrels or limited protected storage space.
The commercial operations had such racks and I bet they had some large cellars for them. I think the farmhouse cider was just fermented/stored in whatever spaces the farm had, and the total amount was probably more like 50 gallons. 50 gallons is a gallon a week for a family. So it would fit OK in a small cellar.
I should pull out my cider books, I haven’t read about this stuff in quite a few years and I am rusty.
Shoot! 25 gal hardly does for me by myself, but that’s canned juice, not fermented.
Scott,
Thanks for the wonderful list; I am curious why you never appeared to try Esopus Spitzenburg. I dont recall you ever mentioning it and apologies if you have and I missed it.
Thanks again
I had it a long time ago but it got fireblight and I didn’t replant until recently. I got my first fruit a few weeks ago in fact, the flavor was surprisingly rich and interesting. But it seemed highly prone to rot which is in general a big problem for me.
I should probably update the above report at the end of this year as I am getting several new varieties fruiting, and more experience with some others. This year Ashmeads Kernel has been fantastic, it never was so good before but I don’t think I got them at peak ripeness. Also King Russet, a russet version of Reine des Reinettes, is awesome. etc etc
many thanks - I have a Hoople’s coming in the spring based on your recs, so you probably don’t hear it often enough, but thanks for everything
I have a Reine des Reinette growing and I actually have two apples on it this year. I am looking forward to tasting them. I did not know there was a russet version of it. Interesting.
My Ashmead’s Kernel has some apples this year. A lot of apples actually. Another apple I am looking forward to taste for the first time. I grabbed one that had fallen off and it was really good.
Scott,
Did you ever try McIntosh or Macoun? I don’t recall seeing those mentioned and again, apologies if you have and I missed it.
Thanks
Amazing list n info. Thanks for taking time to create and post this!
I’ve been trying to get goldrush and gold nugget for years now, without luck, but hearing your feedback makes me want to try even harder this winter!
Cheers.
I am pretty sure McIntosh would not work, it has a type of skin that is far too prone to rots in warm humid climates. Akane and Worcester Pearmain are two with similar skin type and they both were big rotters in my orchard. Plus other obscure ones like Belle Fleur Rouge, Pomme Raisin, Rambour d’Automne … all skin like Mcintosh, all busts for me. So I never even bothered to try. Macoun is also part McIntosh so I passed on it.
Someone here should have them this winter I would guess, or ask me if you can’t find them.
Scott, you rate Primate in your top three early apples, but I don’t see a description of it earlier in your post.
Our Primate tree and branch are about to blossom, so we may get apples for the first time.
I’m further interested because the only time I’ve tasted a Primate apple was several years ago when it was well past its prime and was all mush. That made it hard to judge its flavor beyond some sweetness.
Oops that was a typo, I meant Pristine. Fixed!
Note this thread is an old one see
For the latest version.
Thanks.
The 2018 version came up when I did a search for “primate.” I have been using the updated version.