Some of the little known apple varieties grown at Hocking Hills Orchard

[derekamills]

Hocking Hills Orchard, is located at our Four Seasons Cabins in the beautiful Hocking Hills of SE Ohio. We currently grow over 1,200 varieties of apples, 100 or so varieties of pears, a 100 or so varieties of grapes and a smattering of other mixed fruits. I say “we” but my wife would say to not include her in my insanity of grafting, growing, pruning and harvesting fruit from so many trees and vines !

Out of the 1,200 apple varieties I grow about 200 are red fleshed ones and 200 are hard cider ones. I have written a few articles on red fleshed apples which are some of my favorite ones to grow but this will be about the results of our apple tasting event at our place this past September.

I am asked quite often what is my weirdest apple? That could include shape, color, size or even flavor.

When I have had my apple tastings over the years sometimes I will ask what color apples are? Red, green, yellow obviously guests answer, sometime striped or splotched. Then I would pull out a Blue Pearmain or a Roxbury Russet, Arkansas Black or Lubsk Queen and say what about blue, brown, black or white?

Blue Pearmain - Massachusetts - pre 1800. A unique bluish bloom over dark purplish skin. Crisp, tender, fine-grained yellowish flesh with rich and mildly tart flavor. Orchardists describe the Blue Pearmain as “heavy in hand” (dense) referring to the noticeably higher specific gravity. A longtime favorite cider variety, one of my favorites.

Roxbury Russet - Massachusetts - early 1600’s, Large greenish, sometimes bronze tinged skin almost completely covered with yellowish brown russet. Firm, slightly coarse, yellowish white flesh. Remarkable for its amount of sugar. Excellent for eating fresh, cooking and cider. Ripens in October. Spur bearing.

Arkansas Black - Arkansas - 1850, dark purple becoming nearly black apple at maturity. Very crisp flesh, coarse, greenish white, sharp flavor, improving with age. Keeps all winter. Spur bearing.

Lubsk Queen - Russia - 1800’s. Described has having the most remarkable combination of brilliant pink and white and primrose color of which the eye can conceive. A medium to large apple, the flesh of Lubsk Queen is snow white, firm, juicy, brisk, tart to most tastes. The below picture is not the best to show the white skin color but apples picked from inside the tree are some of the whitest skinned I have seen or grow.

Or how about long, skinny apples like Kandil Sinap? Crimea - late 1700’s, late, medium, long barrel shaped, yellow skin heavily flushed with deep red. White, crisp, juicy and pleasantly flavored. Keeps until February.

In the UK apple varieties that look like Kandil Sinap are called Lady Fingers for whatever obscure reason . And some Lady Finger varieties include:
Lady Finger of Offafaly - Ireland - early 1900’s, mid, medium, attractive yellow apple with bright red stripes and splashes. Characteristic long Lady’s Finger shape. Soft with a spicy sweetness.

Contact me at for information on scions at:
Derek Mills
Hocking Hills Orchard
14435 Nickel Plate Rd
Logan, Ohio 43138
Derekcs2005@aol.com

www.hockinghillsorchard.com although horribly out of date!
www.fourseasonscabinrental.com for a great vacation stay in a cabin in the woods!
www.travelingchapel.com getting married in the Hocking Hills!

[MikeC]

Derek, thank you for the great information and links. I look forward to purchasing some scion wood from you in the next year or two. I’m in SW Ohio so I’m not too far away from you.

[speedster1]

Derek, I’ve probably asked this in the red fleshed apple thread but maybe you don’t mind if I ask it again. I’m across the border from you in WV so our growing conditions should be quite similar. If you were to recommend one and only one red fleshed apple for me to try what would it be? I would prefer one that really brings out the red color. I grow Williams Pride which I haven’t fruited yet but apparently it only gets faint red coloring and often none at all. I watch all of skillcults videos but his growing conditions are so drastically different than mine I don’t feel like I can totally rely on his recommendations.

I do not care for soft or mealy apples and a lot of what I’ve read and seen many of the red fleshed apples are on the softer side. With those parameters in mind what would you recommend?

[derekamills]

Hello,

The firmest red fleshed varuety by far I grow is Grenadine and it has intense red flesh.

I cannot think of any off hand that are soft textured except for most of the red fleshed pears which are the buttery texture type

Almata is another great fleshed variety that is really firm and when the fruit is cut it looks like it is bleeding it is so juicy.

Derek Mills
Hocking Hills Orchard

[ross]

Derek,

You mention different colors and shapes. Usually that means it relates to a certain flavor in other fruits. For example white fleshed peaches are usually less acidic. Have you experienced anything like that in apples?

Also… I would be very interested to know if you have come across different flavor groupings having eaten that many different apples. There are two obvious categories of apples to a novice. Cider & fresh eating. Maybe more depending on how technical you want to get, but have you been able to group apples even further within those two?

I see you have them categorized on your website by these: Antique and Unusual, Red Fleshed, Russets, Pearmains, Pippins, Limbertwigs, Gilliflowers, Cider, Common Favorites, Named Seedlings and Unknown and finally Wanted Varieties. Is a further categorization possible than just sweet or tart?

[BlueBerry]

Hello Derek,
I’ve emailed you using a different handle and email. Hope you’re able to update the website sometime.
I’ve wanted to come visit sometime, just haven’t allocated the time and money yet. I have several apples and
would definitely like to taste some of your red fleshed apples (as well as buy scions or trees).
BB

[derekamills]

got it, thanks!

[derekamills]

Hello Ross,

Good questions and I will try my best to answer them.

First, my website. In the early 1980’s when I started grating my first tree and graft was Newtown Pippin then I grafted Esopus Spitzenberg and then Golden Russet and one thing led to another. So when I went to create my web site I did it based on how had my first orchard plotted out, pippin apples were in one section, russet in another, red flesh, etc. Now if I had the time or more importantly the inclination I would like to redo my website and still keep the red flesh, cider, limbertwig, russet, common and my seedling categories but maybe have the rest of them broken down in to country of origin which is interesting to me.

As far as flavor goes you are absolutely right about and when we have our apple tastings I will tell people the flavors that have been described by me or other people like Blue Pearmain is said to have a rosewater flavor. Moyer;s Spice I tell people is like biting into warm apple pie when you eat one right off the tree on an August afternoon.

Mother and Vanilla Pippin are supposed to taste like vanilla but I will admit I do not taste that but other people have said so.

If you search for my orchard, Hocking Hills Orchard, on YouTube you will find a number of videos by a young lady who drives down to my orchard a couple of times each season to sample different apple varieties and makes really cool videos about them. She describes different red fleshed varieties as having either raspberry or strawberry flavor. And she described Honey Sweet as tasting like bubble gum which cracked me up!

A variety that has really become a hit for us the last couple of years is Hawaii and tastes like kiwi to me.

If a variety has Ananas in the name then it is supposed to taste like pineapple and that flavor is also found in varieties like Pitmaston Pine Apple (actual spelling) and Cornish Pine.

Winter Banana to me when it is picked at peak ripening tastes like green bananas. I cannot say I have ever noticed a banana flavor in Summer Banana apple variety though.

I wish I had a discerning enough palate to describe more flavors but I just don’t. Now I will say that my wife and I went to a friend’s wine tasting party one night and someone there described a wine as tasting like oak leaves with undertones of woodsy dirt, and this was supposed to be great, and I leaned over to my wife Lisa and said that sounds like BS!

[ross]

Thank you for the response, Derek.

I watch a couple of those videos. One thing she mentions is that the red fleshed varieties are usually tart. Is that a fair assessment?

Also… I have a crazy sweet tooth and I was at a local orchard apple picking this year and came across a very sweet almost cotton candy flavored apple called Pinova/Pinata. Have any recommendations for very sweet, low tartness apples with an unusual flavor?

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Blue Pearmain is a huge sweet low-acid apple w/ an unusual grassy crystalline rock candy-like flavor.

[BenHawggard]

If anyone knows a source for Shannon Pippin please let me know. I’ve grafted one tree but it’s always been a poor grower and wanting to try again.

Last time we got it from Steve Kelly but he hasn’t returned any emails this year.

[VSOP]

You might want to call these folks. It says they have Shannon Pippin and it’s currently available but on backorder:

http://new.winnsmillnursery.com/product/shannon-pippen/

ETA: Their website does say it’s a slow grower the first few years, although eventually it turns vigorous. So not sure how long you’ve had your tree, but maybe give it a few more years? Then again, it also says it’s biennial and a shy bearer, so maybe two trees is a good idea.

ETA2: Since this is Derek’s topic, I would not direct you somewhere else, except I do not see this one on the scion list I got earlier this year. But I usually check his list first if I am looking for an obscure variety, as he has the most I’ve seen.

[BenHawggard]

Thank you, I’ve tried emailing them and they didnt reply. I have had mine grafted to anatovonka and it just finished year three and is probably grown 2 inches in that time.

I was hopeful the OP may have had and it wasn’t listed on their website.

[VSOP]

Ah, when you said Steve Kelly, I wasn’t aware he was associated with Winn’s Mill Nursery.

[BenHawggard]

That’s my fault I didn’t clarify I have emailed both parties and so far neither has replied.

[ross]

I’ve heard too many good things, Matt. Was gonna try Blue Pearlmain regardless. I think I may have told you, but at that same local orchard I picked the Pinova/Pinata they had some Pixie Crunch. Very good apple. Glad you recommended it.

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Glad u liked it.

[derekamills]

Most red fleshed varieties are tart but not so tart as to be unpleasant. Even the most tart like Niedzweckyana and Red Flesh have a couple of days where the brix is at its highest and they can be eaten fresh.

Varieties like Red Devil, Almata, Estonian Wine Apple, Pink Pearl, Pink Pearmain and Winekist are great for fresh eating with excelletn flavor.Olivia talks about Estonian Wine apple having a different texture but she came down to sample them when they were past their prime.

For pure sweetness and great flavor some of the best we are grow are Golden Sweet, Hawaii and Cornish Aromatic.

[ross]

Is there a fresh eating red fleshed that can keep for long periods? I don’t see any in stores, so I imagine they don’t.

[derekamills]

Probably the longest lasting red fleshed varieties I grow are Grenadine, Clifford, Red Flesh and Apricot Apple (this one has light orange flesh)