We know that it’s a big challenge and we don’t have resources to run genetic tests but we have to start somewhere from what we know about the stone fruits that we grow. At least these combined knowledge should be tremendously better even if we don’t know accurately their composition. In the absence of definite lineage, we should at least group them phenotypically, otherwise based on what is known genetically.
OK, since I am trying to help Georgia Southern develop an inventory of Chickasaw type plums and have a thread here devoted to them, let me start out by listing the Chickasaw varieties that I know about. A little later I will offer what I know of a description of each. I’m defining “Chickasaw type” as plums with primarily Chickasaw genes and showing mostly Chickasaw morphology. For example, while Robusto is a hybrid with P. salicina, it’s growth habit, leaf morphology and even fruit appearance and flavor is more “Chickasaw” than Asian.
Key morphological characteristics of the plant. The wild type is a small willowy tree that forms dense colonies through profuse suckering. Trees are rarely get more than 15 foot tall, but the cultivate varieties can get much taller, up to 25 foot. The leaves are narrowly lanceolate (long, skinny, lance shaped), cerate or crenulate with a gland on the underside for each tooth. They bloom early and for clingstone fruit that tend to be soft and watery when ripe. The skin is usually tart but the flesh can be tart to very sweet. With most of them there is a distinctive herbal aftertaste that I expressly associate with Chickasaw plums and Chickasaw hybrids.
Cultivated varieties that I know about:
Excelsior: The mostly yellow “Excelsior plum” (there is a red one that’s an Asian X American hybrid) early producing variety that was originally found in Excelsior Georgia in 1919 and introduced into cultivation by a nursery in St. Mary’s Georgia. (I’ve never seen one.)
Guthrie: Mostly yellow to red plum, early ripening. (Photo and description forth coming).
Odom: A red plum, late ripening, sweeter than Guthrie. Photo coming
McKibben: A bright red plum. Very sweet but with tart skin. Photo coming
Toole’s Heirloom. An orangy red plum that’s between the size of a ping pong ball and a golf ball with soft but very sweet clingstone fruit with greenish yellow flesh. Labe variety ripening in late June in Bulloch County Georgia, Zone 8b. Large tree for a Chickasaw (20-25 ft.). Suckers profusely when on its own root.
Bouie: A variety that was passed around the African American community in Bulloch County a generation ago and originated with the Bouie family in Brooklet Georgia. I’ve never seen it. The last known population was destroyed by goats about ten years ago. I’ve only heard people talk about how good it was and the descriptions seem similar to Toole’s Heirloom. If those two tern out to be the same, preference should be given to the Bouie name. We can’t know if they are the same or not unless I find a known Bouie Plum or I find someone who know where my dad got his original Toole’s Heirloom. God bless.
Marcus
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Still…it might be interesting to experiment if honeyberries would perform OK in shade of dappled shade locations as far south as zone 9.
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Excellent Marcus!
I don’t know never had a gage! Howard Miracle is supposed to be a cross of Green Gage and Satsuma hence the name. I heard the taste is like pineapple or grapefruit. Crossed by Frederick H. Howard in 1946.
It’s a legend, Howard Miracle has no Euro plum in it, the “green” parent likely was a yellow-greenish colored Asian plum.
Z@stan,
That’s what I thought, too. I just grafted it on J plum yesterday. It’s good to know that I did not have to move the graft 
Yes, some say it’s the best! 
Well if it did, i would not add it. I have yet to find a euro plum I like that much, OK, but not for me.
I have not tasted all of them.
I have made some great jelly with it. I found laying a big tarp on the ground to catch the cherries works great. I use my swimming pool pole and tape a hook on the end to shake the branches with. Then I play around with a leaf blower a bit to remove debris and hand pick out the other stuff. Then pour it into a five gallon bucket. It still is a bit of work but you can get a bucket in a couple hours. I only do this with bumper crops that get ripe at the same time.
How to create a database that useful to the home and small orchard growers is something I have given thought to. It is why I spun up my own personal copy of GRIN. My research left me with the conclusion the hardest part of this endeavor is coming up with a set of useful descriptors.
You may already be familiar with the USDA descriptors GRIN uses.
This is a link to the European Cooperative Program for Plant Genetics Resources ECPGR: Fruit
The prunus descriptors where all adopted back in the 1980’s
Since then Malus/Pyrus has been revisited several times since 2012 to revise the standard. Prunus began revising in 2011
I had but I can not locate at the moment the new proposed descriptors. I think its great to keep up with standards but at the same time I dont think most would not match up with what your proposing. Which bring me back to my original question what descriptors do people really want?
Meader Bush Cherries — Prunus japonica X Prunus jacquemontii (Joy, Jan, Joel)
Developed by E.M. Meader of the University of New Hampshire, these three cultivars produce a firm-fleshed, tart cherry on a 4 foot bush. The fruit ripens in August, thereby avoiding heavy bird pressure. About as hardy as Nanking cherry, (minus 30 F,) although snow cover may afford additional protection. Loaded with fruit in the late summer and with flashy red autumn color, it makes a striking landscape plant. For a hedge, plant 3-4 feet apart. Joy and Joel are self-fertile; Jan requires one of the other two for pollination.
The GRIN descriptors aren’t centered around the horticultural aspects of the fruits from the point of view of an enthusiastic fruit grower that it is practically useless for people that would want to grow the fruits. They wanted to play it safe that it is so boring and not particularly interesting description like describing a dead body. I’d rather have the fruit description of our biased member than from them!
I hope the GRIN database would exert more effort as to what properties we would want to know.
I picked up some scions at the CRFG event in Santa Rosa,earlier this year,that were labeled European Plumcot.That’s one that’s new to me.
One was sent to Bob Vance,possibly.Brady
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Always found serotina to be an interesting species. It’s not really a “cherry” or a “plum” genetically from my understanding, I believe it’s more distant within the genus.
BTW thanks for doing that! Every scion I grafted from you took. Really nice quality wood.
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Were those from 2018 or this year?bb
This year, not what you mentioned in this thread but other stuff. I saw the post and just wanted to thank you. This year I was going to redo a scaffold and when I cut into, it was dying and no good. I could not graft all I got, no room. I was counting on that tree, and it’s not doing well. I lost one last year with a bunch of grafts too. Oh well. I replaced it this year, I should be able to graft on it next year
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Do you have any you could trade? I’d love to see if it handles our late frosts better than whatever was in my front yard when I moved in. Zone 6/7 depending on who calculated it. But with late frosts in mid april and mid may.
Not this time around. I could start rooting cuttings in july. But you probably live in the US, don’t you? I’m living in europe, which would mean we cannot exchange living plants or cuttings.
That said I do not believe the flowers of Biricoccolo are more frost hardy than those of myrobalane. The last 2 years I only had single fruits from my trees because of late frosts. This year its looking very promising though. The trees are in full bloom and the forecast doesn’t show freezes for the next 2 weeks.
