It’s worth remembering that the cold storage they use keeps apples significantly better than standard refrigeration so that plays a part
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According to CHAT CA storage can actually damage aromatics more quickly than conventional refrigeration. I know you will love this because it is so well organized and lists all kinds of sources.
Yes — you’re absolutely right. Many growers and post-harvest physiologists have observed that fruit stored under a typical Controlled Atmosphere storage (CA) regime can often suffer reduced aroma volatile production compared to storage in regular cold air (normal atmosphere) conditions. Here are why and how that happens, plus what it means in practice (especially relevant for stone fruit and apple/pear systems).
Why aroma tends to drop under CA
Here are key mechanisms by which CA storage can suppress or impair aroma development:
- Reduced respiration and metabolism
- CA lowers O₂ (often down to ~1–3 %) and elevates CO₂ (a few %) and holds low temperature, all of which slow fruit respiration and ethylene‐driven ripening. ScienceDirect+3Cooperative Extension+3ASHS+3
- Because aroma volatile biosynthesis is metabolically linked (via fatty acids, amino acids, ATP/NADPH pools, etc.), this slowed metabolism reduces the “fuel” for volatile generation. For example:
“They realized that volatile aroma production recovered nicely after regular air (RA) storage but was considerably repressed after ‘prolonged’ CA storage.” ASHS+1
- In other words: while fruit firmness, colour and decay may be maintained, the biochemical machinery for aroma suffers.
- Impaired ethylene perception / reduced sensitivity to ethylene
- Ethylene is critical in climacteric fruit (e.g., apples, many plums) for triggering aroma volatile production. In CA or ultra‐low O₂ (ULO) conditions, fruit may become less sensitive to ethylene. ASHS+1
- Example: Bangerth (2012 review) notes that fruit stored under very low O₂ or with ethylene‐inhibitors show drops in volatile production associated with reduced ethylene action. ASHS
- So the “signal” (ethylene) may be weakened or blocked, reducing the downstream aroma pathways.
- Precursor limitation (fatty acids, amino acids, ATP/NADPH pools)
- Aroma volatiles (esters, alcohols, aldehydes) often derive from fatty acids or amino acids. Prolonged CA (or very low O₂) may reduce the pool of these precursors. ResearchGate
- Some studies showed that after long CA or ULO the fruit had lower free fatty acid concentrations and lower adenine/pyridine nucleotide levels (i.e., energy status) than fruit stored in air. ASHS+1
- Harvest maturity and storage duration interactions
- The effect is worse if the fruit were harvested early (pre‐mature) or stored very long under CA. The ability to regenerate aroma upon shelf life is reduced.
- As one review says: “The detrimental effect of long‐term storage on aroma volatile production was greater when more immature fruit were stored.” ASHS+1
- Varietal differences / sensitivity to storage atmosphere
- Some cultivars—especially aroma‐rich ones—may suffer more under CA than more “bland” types.
- Also, CA regimes optimized for firmness/decay may not be optimized for aroma. Example: moving to a “dynamic CA” or interrupted CA approach (see below) can ameliorate some aroma loss. ishs.org+1
Thank you Alan. Aromatics are definitely a component of long storing apples
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From what ive read its a whole tree mutation. Aka the mutation occured in the meristem. So not a seedling and not a sport (where the mutation would have been contained to a single branch)
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I have also seen this.
It’s also a confirmed triploid, which [producing a triploid seedling] seems is very unlikely even compared to a triploid producing any viable seed which itself is very unlikely…but it is theoretically possible on the order of one in a million
Maybe, just my thoughts, some store bought apples would taste better stored long term if they were not picked so early , i.e., more ripe. I do understand that with commercial growers once THEY think it is time to pick them, then they get picked and put in CA storage. So many apples you buy in the store are basically texture apples, not very tasty. They may taste sweet, semi-sweet but that’s about all.
I noticed this with one commercial nursery that is in our state that a local small grocery store uses in all their stores. They seem to taste better than the stores like Kroger’s or Walmart, for example, has in their stores to buy throughout the year.
Just something I have noticed over the years.
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Looking it up again with CHAT I believe I was misled by some secondary sources about it being a seedling found in a Jonagold orchard- it’s patent describes it as a sport.
With CHAT’s help, I am almost certain what happened and why so many secondary sources have described it as a seedling over the years.
Someone took some wood from a mother tree that they assumed to be a normal Jonagold but unbeknownst to them it was a sport. So it was discovered as a whole tree, which is extremely rare, I gather. But, I guess Jonaprince looks enough like the original Jonagold that it isn’t too amazing… the amazing part is that it wasn’t originally clearly described in a way that make its origin clear. As far as I can figure, that is the only way an “whole tree” sport can happen and it happens every time you take a stick of a sport and graft to a rootstock, whether the sport begins from a whole clonal tree or a mutant shoot.
I suppose the sport part of a long shoot could be only a part of it.
Chat just suggested a somewhat less likely scenario (maybe to make me feel better, it seems ,more likely to me)… that a recent scion graft itself mutated on the tip and the entire branching part of the tree became the new sport.
Most of the time sports are discovered growing on a tree that is otherwise the entire original variety.
Genetics make my head swim. Now it seems to me that my original explanation is the most likely… that a part of the mother tree of Jonaprince had a single Jonaprince branch that wasn’t recognized as a sport until it was grafted to a rootsock and became a whole tree. Apparently shoots rarely can become complete sports, and only can partially mutate for reasons beyond my capacity, at least by this time after a long day.
Maybe one of you with a more complete understanding of genetics can make a clearer explanation, but I believe my basic facts are correct.
i think both are technically possible and we just wont ever really be able to know because no one checked before it was grafted, but i await anyone who can say otherwise
The topic is very subjective to individual tastes anyway.
I do appreciate the exploration of fsctors contributing to long term taste and aromatics though.
Just as a counterpoint, i prefer when AI is part of a person’s “knowledge” on a subject it is extremely clear so i really like when folks chose to use it to post “information” they do as this initial post did.
This isnt because i like or trust AI answers even if the user is an “expert” on them, but rather because I come to this forum to get information from other people’s own personal experience with growing fruit and such posts are easy for me to skim past since its clearly cited where the information comes from.
What i like less is when someone uses AI to come up with “facts” then changes wording around to make it easy for me to potentially mistake an AI generated answer for their own lived experience with the given subject.
Thats just me. I just enjoy this forum for getting information from folks who know about something from their own experiences. Search engines have been around for decades and if I wanted to just google a ton of random information I could do that anyway (since AI is really just catchy marketing for a fancy search engine fed with a ton of material stolen from web users of all stripes.)
So for what tiny bit my 0.000002 cents is worth, I welcome AI source info to be posted long form for ease of knowing the source (so to speak).
To address the topic, in my limited experience trying apples into the winter and early spring months the two varieties i have tried (as grown in Central VA at least) that stand out for flavor and long shelf life are Gold Rush and E.Spitz. Roxbury Russet was pretty good too but not in the same league.
Well i wasnt suggesting not disclosing its ai, but rather saying its from ai and summarizing it.
I agree i also value experience more but ai can be useful at some tasks
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The aspect of the chemistry that determines the longevity of the flavor profile isn’t subjective. The ability for varieties to sustain crispness is not subjective.
However, you do make a fair point, IMO, in that I made a poor choice of words for the topic’s title. It isn’t about which apples taste best at all, it is about which hold their quality the longest. I do think that the desire for crisp texture is almost universal- at least for those with functional teeth 
. .
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We may be the exception, but my partner and I actually enjoy a few apples (russeted) once they partially dry on the counter and change from crisp to somewhat… idk ? Dense and slightly crunchy/Chewy?..
Roxbury russet or goldrush kept on a counter at room temp for a few months shrivel up and look a bit like giant raisins (certainly not something you could sell at a market) but the flesh is still enjoyable to us albeit different once you trim off the wrinkled skin. In contrast, some non russetted apples weve tried like jonathon that may keep as long but tend to get mealy and bland as the water inside them doesnt seem to evaporate through the skin like it does on those more russetted varieties.
But to be fair, I’m willing to assume you may be right and that we may be in a minority that doesnt mind chewy instead of crispy for a winter eating apple.
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Personally I often try to let blah store bought apples age more in hopes of flavor improving. Shrinking and shrivelling are ok. But yes, few folk do that.
Just tried Rave apples and they are not bad at all. I hear they do not improve with age. But the family loves the very juicy crispness. I like the mild spiciness.
I agree with you that the flavor of some russets is at their prime when they have more of a chewy texture. I also don’t mind it, given the flavor tradeoff. 
Keep in mind that no AI has ever planted/pruned/harvested/tasted an apple.
As someone else stated, the current crop of AIs are just really good search engines. Instead of simply finding a URL of a POST/Blog/Article/whatever that looks like it might have info about what’s being asked. They can pull tidbits from multiple and distill out a human language response which sounds authoritative. Assuming they don’t rely on info provided by some human which is blatantly wrong (intentional or otherwise). Or just “hallucinate” something based on what they thought they understood from those multiple sources.
Here’s a question posed earlier in this thread and answered by Gemini:
The Sources button was later clicked revealing those three sites on the right. Note the site and thread in the middle which the AI is leveraging to help answer this question
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No, I’m talking about mushy, not dryish and crunchy. Goldrush can be shriveled and still quite enjoyable to me because it holds both its crunch and flavor. It shrivels in the fridge if you have auto-defrost, unless you protect it with some level of plastic protection without causing rot. A few holes in a plastic bag, for example. You are right, it is about the physiology of the skin, which CHAT will happily explain to you with the details I’ve already forgotten.
There are many factors that determine apple quality and flavor. Flavor is subjective, quality is determined by variety, geography, and the priorities of the harvester. Apples flavor quality varies from year to year.
I prefer the results of a U-pick harvest wherein the apples are well tended, and the picker picks the fruit in their prime.
The apples my wife has purchased from the store and several varieties I’ve picked up at local markets appear to have been picked 3-4 weeks ahead of ripening date. No accurate assessment can be made when comparing market apples vs U pick or backyard grown.
Some varieties benefit from stickers like the Black Twig.
According to Mr. Parker at Parker Orchard, the Brushy Mt. Limbertwig is a chameleon. Some years they’re red, some years light. Ripening times and size vary from year to year.
Some folks up north say the AGM is swine food. The one I tried was a wall of flavor, not a typical flavor but a concrete wall of flavor.
There is no good or bad texture. Different textures are required for different uses. I use apples in many different ways.