Whip and Tongue Questions

Greetings,

I just attempted my first whip and tongue graft on my 2 year old pear and cherry trees. I wrapped the grafts in rubber band and then tape, but now I wish I had tape on the bottom layer with rubber band on top.

  1. How many buds above the graft should I leave?
  2. Should I protect the tip of the scion with wax or glue, or is that overkill?
  3. How/when do I know if the graft was successful?
  4. Given that the rubber bands are the first layer, when should I cut thru and let branch stand on its own?

Thanks

The whole idea is to conserve the moisture in the scion while the graft heals and starts receiving sap from the mother plant/tree. To what extent you decide to go is up to you but for harder to graft varieties, I highly recommend either wrapping the scion in parafilm or with a wax of some sort. As far as how many buds you only need 1 but more is just an insurance policy if some buds are damaged or dead.

I leave grafting tape/bands on until late summer as long as the graft is no being choked out.

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Thanks for your reply. So you wrap the entirety of the grafted branch?

How do I know if the branch is being choked? I wrapped the rubber bands as tight as I could.

Whip/toung graft … persimmon. 2 buds on scion.

Notice i have the scion covered in parafilm to prevent moisture loss. Just one layer… especially over buds.

Once the graft is made… i wrap the graft union area with a few layers of parafim. Then I apply tightly black rubber tape. It is very sticky and pulls tight and stays in place well.

I generally remove tape and parafilm after 2 ft of growth.

Good luck !

TNHunter

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If successful… you will see it progress like this.

TNHunter

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Thanks! You said to especially cover the buds with the parafilm. I see in your second photo that the buds are not covered, did they burst thru your tape?

I have a lower quality tape, where I don’t think the buds will be able to burst thru without my assistance. Can you advice?

Yes, buds will burst through a layer of parafilm. I usually stretch parafilm to make it even thinner when wrapping buds.

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I’m new to grafting, so I’m not sure how buds will interact with the tape I used.

Just to confirm, are you using Parafilm tape or a different tape?

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If you use parafilm on the scion and especially only one layer thick over the buds… those buds will easily push thru it.

The rubber black tape I put over the graft union area… I may do several wraps of that and doubt seriously a bud could push thru that.

The black tape is much more for support to hold that graft union tightly in place.

Some do use rubbers for that… I prefer the rubber tape myself.

TNHunter

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I first wrap the scion in buddy tape. It’s easier to wrap before grafting not after. Then make the graft union. Then wrap the union in rubber bands usually ~3 layers thick and tight. Then sometimes cover that with aluminum foil. Nothing is needed on the union except rubber bands or rubber tape. Rubber bands and tape are not water permeable.

Remove before the rubber bands constrict growth. They can if left too long. But usually degrade from sunlight outdoors.

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Similar to fruitnut, I wrap the scion in parafilm, make the union, and then wrap it with something that holds it truly tight -it can be Temflex, rubber bands, electrical tape, or even masking tape. I don’t need the aluminum foil in this climate.

Make sure there are no gaps between the scion and the stock; I like to have a few wraps of parafilm over the cuts in the stock, and I like to carry the parafilm over the stump of the stock to make sure it’s water tight, and I’m not above putting a dab of wax on top of that to make sure water can’t get in. A dab of wax on the end of the scion doesn’t hurt.

And no, you don’t want the tape or rubber bands left on too long. Fall is soon enough to check them.

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These are all great pointers. Looking forward to incorporating to my next W&T session. If it’s okay, I posted some photos with corresponding questions below the pics.

Picture #1

You’ll see the scion has older and newer wood on it. Would the older buds create branches or would you snip those and work with the younger buds at the top?

Picture #2

I like the direction of the small branch on the lower right, but maybe I should snip it and just work with the upper bud. Any tips?

Pictures #3 and #4


I grafted these thicker scions onto a well established ornamental cherry, but neither of them have buds…would any growth occur on a graft like this, or should my future scions always include younger buds?

Thanks everyone!

Picture 1: As a general rule people work with only last year’s wood, so it’s unusual to have old and new wood both on a scion. But if that graft takes any/all of the buds may take off. I like to use scions with three buds (for insurance) but one or two are often all you need.

Picture 2: Again, older wood, and if the graft takes you might be able to make good use of the branch on the lower right.

Picture 3: Older wood again? There are probably buds hiding at the axials and they might come out -or not!

Also it’s not critical but good practice to put a dab or wax/tar/etc on the exposed cut ends and better still to just wrap the entire scion (in my humble opinion) like you did in Picture 2 (but tighter).

Good luck and have fun.

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I’ve started using the rubber tape, too. I got tired of snapping rubber bands.

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Ditch the old wood. Make your scion smaller, 2-3 buds of just new wood. Get real wrap. That looks like plastic wrap which isn’t a good option. Wrap the entire scion with buddy tape or parafilm M.

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@LarisaLee … I used a tarp strap (extra heavy rubber band) on my first graft… a large mulberry stump / bark graft. It worked well for that situation.

I would much rather graft where the scion and rootstock can match in diameter (whip/tounge)… or where the scion is about half the size of the rootstock (modified cleft).



TNHunter

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Why not do a Side graft ? no splice required.

image

I use it all the time, even when the diameters are the same or vastly different.

Wrap just the graft area with a couple of layers of parafilm

In this photo, I dabbed a bit of sealant on the top after the graft had taken, and the parafilm had fallen off. But invariably I do not bother doing that anymore.

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Haha! I love the bungee cord! I bought a whole roll of bright orange hay baling twine and haven’t told my husband yet. Last time I did that he said he was embarrassed even to drive down our driveway because we looked like rednecks with all that orange twine! Roll is 4000 feet, so I used it everywhere!

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Another question- I started experimenting with W&T but learned on here that you should be using one year old scions. W&T scions was doable with older wood from a diameter perspective, plenty of thickness to make the cut. But now that I’ve leaned I should use younger wood, all the scions on one year old wood are closer to 1/4 inch or less, i cant imagine being able to do a W&T, so Ive switched to cleft graft.

Can one year old scions get thick enough to use the W&T method?

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