We will get a lot better data once we are growing all of them. Early golden is a good one here.
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If you want a small compact tree Szukis… is a seedling of Early Golden.
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Yeah. The only cultivated persimmon that I have that has had residual astringency is L-89. For me (south-central Indiana), Prok is pretty variable year to year. No year is terrible, but some years it is too soft and bland for my tastes - tastes like ‘nothing’ but in a pleasant way. It does have good years, though, where it is among the top varieties I have. Early Golden, Ruby, and H-118 have been reliably, good for me here. I like the early ones the best since the fruit is typically much more attractive than the late varieties (not all dry and wrinkly). But to tell you the truth, I like all my persimmons. I keep L-89 because it is, by far, the most ornamental of my persimmons. It’s a gorgeous tree with very large, dark green leaves with with languid, drooping limbs (kind of reminiscent of a Dr. Seuss tree).
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I had Geneva Long for a while, but lost the tree to borer attack. Nothing about it suggested to me that it was a hybrid… just seemed like a larger NC-10, as they both have that elongate ‘acorn’ shape.
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The word “hybrid” has mixed usage in the plant world. For annual plants, “hybrid” often means a cross between two cultivars of the same species – an intraspecies hybrid. For perennials it more often means an interspecies cross – such as Pluot. Overall when the word is used without a prefix it is wise to treat it with suspicion.
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Good write up
"Prairie Sun™ American Persimmon, with beautiful, orange-yellow fruit is not only early ripening, it is also delectably sweet, firm, and delicious. Apparently self-fertile, Prairie Sun ™ bears abundant crops of large seedless fruit in our orchard.
Prairie Sun™ American Persimmon
Prairie Sun™ American Persimmon, with beautiful, orange-yellow fruit is not only early ripening, it is also delectably sweet, firm, and delicious. Apparently self-fertile, Prairie Sun ™ bears abundant crops of large seedless fruit in our orchard.
We are proud to introduce these new and very special varieties to American gardeners. From the invaluable work of the late Jim Claypool, an amateur breeder and American Persimmon enthusiast, the following varieties are delicious examples of the best of this native American fruit.
One of our best native American fruits and hardy to minus 25 degrees F., American Persimmon can be grown in all but the coldest regions of the U.S. Our hard-to-find, grafted varieties produce bountiful crops of delicious, light-orange fruit. American Persimmon fruit is ready to eat when it is soft like a tomato and is great for fresh eating and for making delectable cookies, cakes, and other treats. American Persimmon trees are easy to keep 10-12 ft in height with pruning.
They like full to half day sun and can grow on most soils. Our varieties are partially to fully self-fertile but all will bear heavier crops with a Male tree for pollination. Naturally pest and disease resistant, our American Persimmon varieties can produce 30 lbs. or more of fruit and often begin bearing the 2nd or 3rd year after planting.
Latin Name: Diospyros virginiana
Site and Soil: Persimmons like 1/2 day to full sun and well-drained soil
Rootstock Description: Grafted onto American Persimmon rootstock
Pollination Requirements: Prairie Sun ™ is self-fertile. Plant with our Male Persimmon to ensure good crops.
Hardiness: American Persimmon is hardy to minus 25°F.
Bearing Age: 2-3 years after planting
Size at Maturity: 10-12 ft. in height (with occasional pruning)
Bloom Time: June
Ripening Time: Late September
Yield: 30+ lbs.
Pests & Diseases: With proper care and placement Persimmon trees are not bothered by pests or diseases
USDA Zone: 4
Sunset Western Zone: 3-9, 14-16, 18-23
Sunset Northeast Zone: 31, 32, 34-41
"
https://onegreenworld.com/product-category/fruiting-trees-shrubs/persimmon/american-persimmon/
This thread is a good resource on grafting persimmon that are not patented or trademarked 2023 Persimmon Grafting
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I know the topic is Improved American Persimmons… but i got a lead yesterday on a local tree. One of the old timers down the road from me used to be a well tender and his job was to go to many many old well sites all over the area. He has a decent orchard and there isnt one inch of his yard that doesnt have something growing in it… so i trust him.
He told me yesterday that there is a tree not far from where i live that has persimmons the size of a small apple. I asked for sure that they werent small like the size of most others he made a size with his hands that looked to be 3-4 inches. He said dont eat them until late september or so and they taste like caramel or butterscotch.
The property in question was sold at auction so im going to try to get access by either the new owners or one of the new well tenders that are always working in my area.
I have heard of Yates being a native with large fruits from Ohio… so curious to see this one.
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So many of these “improved” cultivars are chance seedlings, just like the one you’re describing.
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I have tales of walnut sized ones on other peoples properties but they all said that they died. And those tales are from many years ago. I always ask old timers when i get a chance because in my area they used to coon hunt and folks were more active in the woods back then. Old timers know where 'sang and 'moochers are whereas the young folk dont even know what those words mean let alone know what a persimmon is.
Anyways I learned my lesson on showing interest in things…its best to do it all at once instead of showing interest now then trying to visit again in the fall… folks change their minds and may want monies etc after thinking about it too long. So i will likely go take a peek in late sept to see whats going on.
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You stumped me on that one.
And yeah, I hear you on following up promptly. Strike while the iron is hot as they say.
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you aint from these mountains then…carpetbagger.
Molly ‘Moochers’ is what we call Morel Mushrooms… the act of looking for them is ‘Molly Moochin’.
You probably dont eat slaw on your hot dog either…or eat pepperoni rolls.
Goin Molly Moochin and comin back with some Moochers in your poke…you stop by the store and get a hot dog with slaw,a pepperoni roll, RC cola and a moonpie… thats a very very very good day.
Before WV became a state in 1863 it was Virginia… which the persimmon name was first coined by William Strachey in the mid 1600s as he traveled thru Virginia (could have been WV?) The natives called it pos man. Pos meaning choke/ Man meaning fruit. Chokefruit 
which is why it is named D. virginiana.
Crazy how things get their names…specially in these here mountains.
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@hobilus
I’ll confess to ordering and paying for a cultivar before announcing the re-availability to everyone else.
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I certainly aint. Though I’m not sure anyone is from anywhere any more increasingly, it seems. I do have some Scots-Irish roots and do know some of the Appalachian vernacular, picked up from music and documentaries mostly. I’m a transplant to my own corner of Appalachia, which I think has more in common with your neck of the woods than is commonly acknowledged. There is still a living tradition here involving some unique parlance and folkways. In terms of tree names, all aspens are known as “popple” and old timers will still refer to elms as “ellem”. There’s a funny extra syllable added here to a lot of words. I think it’s properly called a diphthong. So pine, for example, winds up as something like pi-ine. All curious to me, a refugee from nowhere really. Kindle those flames. There’s value in old ways and depth in old expressions for sure.
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Also funny to consider things from the perspective of cultural exchange. Pepperoni ain’t from those hills neither, now is it?
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I’m from WV. IMO, the pepperoni rolls are a marketing gimmic. Grandpa was in the deep mines 30 years and bet never saw a pepperoni roll
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A good tale you tell, and etymology IS fascinating. Perhaps you are not aware that the original English name for North America was Virginia. A number of North American species- whether plant or animal- are known as ‘virginiana’. It has to do with them being endemic to N. America, particularly species which would have been encountered by colonists. Virginiana - Wikipedia
And I’ve never seen the sense in carpets, least of all bagging them up. Or should I say, puttin em in your poke…
Good link. I’ll dig into it later tonight. You did gloss over one detail though, which also speaks to my point about exchange (vs being “from here”).
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And which one would that be, or perhaps we should stay tuned…
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@hobilus
LOL!
Well, to narrow it down a bit notice that it is illegal to ship persimmon roots into CA – bareroot or otherwise.
But I did just order a few figs I had wait-listed at OGW, within a minute of receiving the email. And when I finished checking out their availability of those figs was zero.
that narrows it down?