Some of them are 10 foot monsters now!
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But you haven’t grafted the 100-46 yet? I think they would produce very quickly. Early golden (on multiple rootstocks) is slow for me compared to most others. 100-46 produced fairly quickly (across several rootstock) and the trees aren’t all that big.
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When I grafted onto 6-7 foot trees the scion fruited the next year on half of them. Not much, but a few.
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100-46 produced 20 persimmons on its second season after being grafted on to a 1.5 inch diameter rootstock! Nothing else has been so precocious for me. Third season it bore close to 100 persimmons.
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Just about everyone throws a few different ones out there they like. Someone might like some of these
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Downingtown Center (aka Downingtown Middle) – one of the best persimmon from John Hershey’s farm, and my favorite. Late Aug-October
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Ruby – large-fruited, late season persimmon
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McKenzie Corner – one of the best persimmons from John Hershey’s farm. Sept-October
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McKenzie Middle – one of the best persimmons from John Hershey’s farm. Large fruit. Ripens October-November.
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Early Golden – the classic American persimmon selection from Indiana circa 1890.
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Claypool C120 – namesake fruit of breeder James Claypool, of Elmo, Illinois.
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Dollywood D128 – Popular James Claypool selection
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Early Jewel H-118 – Very early, large fruited selection from the breeding work of James Claypool. Very productive tree.
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H63A – One of the most popular James Claypool selections. Large fruit with excellent flavor.
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H94A – James Claypool selection
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J53A – James Claypool selection
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K44 – James Claypool selection
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K44A – James Claypool selection
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DEC Money Maker – from the breeding work of Donald E. Compton (DEC) in southern Indiana. Excellent fruit.
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They say
I94 American Persimmon “is also known as Claypool 1-94 or Valeen Beauty. This Large fruit has clear flesh with excellent flavor. Claypool I-94 is large, early, and delicious. It differs from Early Golden by being slightly larger, more oblate and brighter orange color.”
I 94 American Persimmon Tree - Stark Bro’s.
@Lucky_P said this 16 years ago
"Gene,
I got my Valeene Beauty scions directly from Don. My notes, from Don Compton, indicate that it is a Lena X Early Golden. I’m not certain whether or not he bred it, or whether it’s a Claypool selection.
John Raymond had an article in the Sept. 2006 NNGA ‘Nutshell’ wherein he mapped out relatedness of a bunch of the named/numbered persimmon selections, particularly those that Jim Claypool used in his breeding program.
Early Golden is a known entity, but here’s the info on Lena, from John’s article:
“Lena(Mitchellana) Winner of the Mitchell(IN) Persimmon Festival in 1955. Fruit is squat and soft with tender skin and attractive red color. Good in cooked products, flavor holds up well in frozen pulp. Ripens early over a long period.”
VB hasn’t fruited for me yet, so I can’t comment first-hand on fruit size/quality, though Don and my buddy Danny Vessels, also from IN, both gave it rave reviews. This should have been my year to get fruit, but the Easter BFD(Big Freeze Disaster) probably ended that possibility."
"H-118: A Claypool variety and daughter of Juhl. It has early ripening with excellent pulping qualities. H-118 has improved color and clearness of pulp "
I continue to be very interested in learning all i can about the work of John Hershey, Donald Compton, Jerry Lehman, Jim Claypool, John Gordon, Carl Meyers, Cliff England and others.
I thought you might want to know more of a back story on some of our favorite american persimmons
" Prok
Thought by many to be an Asian/American hybrid due to the fruit size being 30% larger than other American cultivars, ‘Prok’ is a pure 90 chromosome American persimmon from the mother ‘Pipher.’ The name comes from the acronym for ‘Persimmon Ralph Kreider’ who originally found ‘Pipher’ in Northern Illinois. ‘Prok’ has the highest flesh to seed ratio of any pollinated 90 chromosome persimmon and at 8 fruits to the pound, is thought to be the most viable American cultivar for commercial production. For Northern climates, ‘Prok’ is one of the earliest dropping cultivars and is well known to ripen before winter sets in.
Hardiness: Proven in zone 5b
Color: Peach to light orange
Size: Very large 2.5″-3″
Weight: 2 oz per fruit
Flavor: Mild, delicious
Ripening window for zone 5b: September 20th-October 1.
Parentage: Pipher x ?
John Rick
‘John Rick’ was selected by J.C. McDaniel (University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign) in 1958 and still receives widespread acclaim among persimmon growers for its large, handsome fruits. The orangey-yellow fruits are blushed red and are up to 2 inches in diameter. The skin and flesh are tender and flavorful. Its small calyx does not puncture other fruits in storage and combined with its overall attractiveness, ‘John Rick’ is a prime cultivar for fresh marketing. It ripens in early October. A five-year-old grafted tree often yields 40+ pounds of fruit, making ‘John Rick’ one of the highest yielding cultivars to date. Seedlings of ‘John Rick’ have been shown to be very vigorous and precocious.
Hardiness: Proven in zone 5b
Color: Orange-Yellow
Size: Large 2″
Weight: 1.5 oz per fruit
Flavor: Mild, delicious
Ripening for zone 5b: Oct 1- Oct 15.
Parentage: ‘Killen’ x ‘William’
Juhl
‘Juhl’ is one of the best pulping persimmons available, as it falls freely from the tree without its calyx and has a large flesh/seed ratio, often producing around 70% pulp. The fruit is large to very large and one of the earliest to ripen, usually in early-mid September in Indiana, but occasionally in late August. The fruit color is clear yellow with a slight red blush and heavy bloom. ‘Juhl’ has tender skin and flesh without astringency when ripe. She is a regular heavy bearer with an average of 10 fruits to the pound.
Hardiness: Proven in zone 5b
Color: Light/Clear Yellow
Size: Large 2″-2.5″
Weight: 1.5 oz per fruit
Flavor: Mild, delicious
Ripening for zone 5b: September 15th
Parentage: Unknown (probably a wild selection)
Morris Burton
‘Morris Burton’ was discovered by cows in Indiana. The Burtons had a large farm covered with persimmon trees, but all the animal trails led to this tree. When the owners tasted the fruit, they found out why it was so popular. The fruit is small and the flesh a beautiful red, but all who have tasted this one agree that it has the best flavor of all. J.C. McDaniels once said: “‘Morris Burton’ is the finest flavored persimmon under Illinois and Indiana conditions.” The sugar content is so high that you can cut the sugar added in recipes by 50% and get the required results. The foliage turns bright yellow in the fall and is very ornamental looking. It is precocious and bares large annual crops. 25 fruits to the pound.
Hardiness: Proven in zone 5b
Color: Dark orange
Size: Medium Small 1″-1.5″
Weight: .6oz/fruit
Flavor: Rich, Brown Sugar, Exceptional
Ripening for zone 5b: October 15th
Parentage: Wild selection"
There is an entire thread on this @Auburn started years ago Morris Burton growing well . I’m guessing they either got bored with Morris Burton or they all buried with fruit by now.
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What’s the expression – “the devil is in the details”? Before we get too excited about the choices immediately above, consider: (1) Many growers, including me, find Prok bland. Also I had a very tough time getting the fruit to lose astringency. (2) I’m trying Morris Burton, but it’s a huge risk because the variety has been reported to be late-ripening. In a short-season growing environment, late-ripening fruit would be a poor choice. Late-ripening can mean never ripening. (3) IMO, the optimal fruit would NOT “fall free without its calyx” like Juhl. This causes a collision with the ground, which may cause damage. Worse, the ground is likely tainted by animal feces. And the hole left behind by the calyx provides an opining for spoilage organisms.
Thus far in my own limited tests in one season with fruit from three varieties other than Prok, I’ve found H63A the best, maturing early, hanging on the tree (!) and ripening without astringency. The flavor is excellent. Barbra’s Blush is roughly equal in timing and quality, though differing slightly in flavor, but BB seems to fall when ripe. Dollywood appears to be a bit later to ripen. The season here was delayed by poor spring weather, so I’m hoping Dollywood will ripen earlier (and thus taste better) this year. But this experience exemplifies the importance of timely ripening.
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I’m going to need some late ripening types like Morris Burton because i have the opposite problem. I grafted 3 h118, 4 early golden, and i have 1 or 2 A33. I’m to heavy on the front end of the season. To your point some years i get caught picking late pears in the snow. It might be that the persimmons will get picked frozen which is actually ok as long as they hang well on the tree. Many wild persimmons hang until something picks them.
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Morris Burton isn’t late ripening. It won’t be with your heat units. It’s early and mid around here. Claypool said that was one of the problems with it being used commercially for pulp. The drop is very spread out (over a month perhaps). WS8-10 would be more of a late ripening. Or U20A… or a number of others.
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Thank you for that! Yes our sun will barbecue most everything ripe! The winter can get nasty but it is not to bad yet. It can drop to -25F no problem.
Windchill -25 F like this week is not bad but actually temps of -25F or -30F is bad with a 30 - 45 mph wind.
We currently have 5" of snow on the ground with 30 mph winds. Gusts are going to 45 mph.
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Wind here all night and into today. We had nearly 4 inches of rain overnight. I moved an orange tree in my front yard where two were growing in one spot moving it 22 feet away so there will be three trees evenly spread.
I suspect Juhl was not intended to be hand harvested. It probably works to put down nets and shake the tree.
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I planted a Downingtown Center/Middle last summer from Buzz. Will see how it does. I forget where, but I read somewhere that there are those that believe it may be just Early Golden.
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How is L-104 as far as taste goes? We know it is smaller thanks to this picture from @SMC_zone6
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I found this old thread below very interesting!
Many people have warmer climates than my zone 6a. Sometimes we dip down to -25 or rarely -30F. Think i will try these among others, knowing some have cautioned against a few of them. Kansas may grow them better.
Claypool C-100
Claypool I-94 aka Valene Beauty
Dollywood
Elmo (Claypool A-118)
Garretson
John Rick
Killen
Lena
Morris Burton
Wabash
Weber
Yates (Juhl)
“Lena (Mitchellana) was winner of the Mitchell Indiana Persimmon Festival in 1955. American persimmon variety that is well regarded for it’s flavor, tender skin and attractive red color. Often mentioned as one of the best tasting persimmons. Good for pulp or fresh. Ripens early over a long period. Late ripening.
Zone 5-9”
Others i’m interested in
100-46
Rich tooie
https://growingfruit.org/t/persimmon-mother-load/38916/71
Prok
Barbara’s blush
Many american persimmons are showing potential but a lot more work needs done to get them to the size of kaki.
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Any other info on the DEC trees like DEC Wannabee#3, DEC King Crimson, DEC Goliath, DEC Double-Ziptie, … or Hershey Blue or Breadroll ? I may get scionwood of those soon.
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I know perfect circle has a bunch of these perfect circle farm
Mad cat also sells some
@hobilus may know more about them
I dont know much about Compton persimmons. I do know some. The persimmons are actually the work of Donald Eugene Compton (DEC) from Indiana. There are many of them like DEC wannabe , DEC Goliath, DEC Money maker , DEC King Crimson etc.
This thread says a little more Donald Compton persimmon .Many have taken road trips there Log into Facebook | Facebook
I been talking to @hobulus about a trade yesterday so thats why i was asking.
Its hard to find info on those DEC and Hershey varieties, other than they are good.
Maybe ill call or email the nurseries that offer scionwood or oeople who roadtripped and tried the fruit on FB. Thanks for the suggestions
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Buzz told me that last season. Im not sure how he came to that conclusion. It does apparently have a distinctive tendency to be fasciated too. Thats how it came up actually as I was asking him about some scions that had been labeled “fasciated”. He said also that the fasciated limbs are not stable: the revert to plain growth when grafted.
Its more commonly called ‘yates’ though its gone by both names, depending.
I only know what Buzz told me about them for the most part. Don Compton doesn’t name his varieties, from what I understand, Buzz and others ? have given them cultivar names. I grafted a DEC ‘Don’s Earliest’ this past spring and Im curious to see just how early it is.
The only Hershey variety Ive tried is ‘McKenzie Corner’, which a friend brought freshly gathered from the OG near Downingtown. They were good size and quite tasty. Its also the only of my Hershey selections to fruit so far. It was pretty late for me and not as big or flavorful, but maybe that will improve. Its vigorous and wants to be tall.
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I had studied Hershey’s catalogues and for me only ‘Buhrman’ matches blue coloration.
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