These are Ruby x Early Golden (bagged and hand pollinated). The sun burned ones germinated indoors; the greener ones germinated outdoors. Ruby and EG are my two favorite persimmons, so hopefully get a decent one in the bunch.
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The tap roots on mine were 8" when they were that size! Nice!
Hello, any cultivar of American persimmon should do great in the piedmont of NC.
Hi John. I have been a bit of a lurker on this Persimmon post for a while but this winter result post of yours really peaked my interest and I felt I just had to join the forum and respond.
I own and operate a very diverse orchard in Missoula MT. Listed as a 5a but we get zone 4 weather every once in a while. Like you, we get variable weather(warmups followed by cold) in the spring that hurt fruit like persimmons. We also get weather like that in the fall, so persimmons can get damaged twice in some seasons. I have tried many seedlings/cultivars over the last 6 years and they grow well until they experience one of these weather events on the shoulder season(they are killed to the ground). It really doesnât seem to be the cold mid-winter temps that injure them and yet almost no one really knows which ones can handle this type of treatment best. A âhardyâ persimmon in this regard would not be fooled into coming out too early by spring warm spells and harden off early in the fall. Which leads me to a question:
Out of all the female cultivars you have tried, which one seems to be the best at avoiding damage from variable shoulder season weather? I know you mentioned in once in a post that WS8-10 seemed to be the best at this but I am wondering if you have any more data now.
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What varieties have you tried Sapp? And welcome to the forum as an active poster!
I would suggest Mohler is one that seems to have better adaptability in spring/fall fluctuations, but this is based on reading and not on first-hand experience.
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Meader is also noted for itâs cold tolerance.
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To my knowledge many kaki persimmons are astringent and the most commonly found type in supermarkets, Hichiya, is astringent. When I was young I thought all persimmons had to be soft to be edible. Fuyus didnât come into my focus until I was an adult and at first could only be found at Asian markets. That is still the best place to go for affordable Fuyus, unless you live in CA. They often sell them by the box. Well, Costco sometimes carries them by the box for a very good price. Trader Joeâs sells them by the piece for a reasonable one.
I just harvested 3 Great Wall persimmons for my first harvest from that tree. They will presumably be astringent until soft. I just hope they are sweet- they are deep orange, so Iâm hopeful.
Maybe you mean that American persimmons always have a touch of astringency even when ripe. I donât know if that is true or not. My tree does, though. Just a touch but still delicious to my palate.
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I didnât mean it literally is what they are but rather what the classification are called " American persimmon is a type of astringent persimmon ." I should have said nearly all, since the majority of kaki are non astringent but there are some exceptions. I should not have said all . Nothing is ever that cut and dry Astringent vs Non-Astringent Persimmons: Whatâs the Difference? â The Fruit Grove
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Sorry, late to the discussion.
What about hybrids? Do they easily cross to Americans?
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Once the cross has been made, further crosses in either parental direction have generally been viable. Yes, hybrids cross readily with American persimmon so long as we are referring to 90 chromosome varieties.
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Thank you for the clarification. And Iâm guessing from that answer there hasnât been any hybrids made with 60 chromosome?
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60 chromosome persimmon is kind of the odd man out when it comes to making crosses. Crossed with hexaploid persimmon would give a pentaploid which is non-viable due to pachytene pairing problems. Crossed with D. lotus - a diploid - would give a triploid offspring with the same issue.
In theory, D. lotus could be crossed with a hexaploid variety yielding a tetraploid which could then be crossed with 60 chromosome American persimmon. It would be difficult with repeated embryo rescue required to make the crosses.
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John- Was that a Garretson persimmon you grew? How did it taste? I finally grafted it into my orchard successfully last year.
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We had a late cold spell⌠April 9th this spring.
I call it a cold spell instead of a frost⌠because I saw no evidence of frost.
The low temp on my two merc thermometers on my back porch was 35F.
There was no frost on the grass, no frost on my truck windshield⌠which normally does happen with a frost.
Most of my mulberries were out similar to the Gerardi pictured above. Initial buds open first flush of fruit exposed.
After that 35F morning April 9th⌠4 of my 5 mulberries looked like this⌠toasted.
Gerardi, silk hope, oscar, kip parker⌠all got toasted pretty bad⌠lost all that initial flush of fruit.
Lawson Dawson⌠growing next to Oscar⌠had only a little tip damage on a few leaves. It lost NO fruit.
Some of my persimmons were out pretty good atthis point⌠JT02 was way out⌠Prok was out pretty good too⌠and some just had good bud swell happening.
My mohler persimmon graft is very near Oscsr and Lawson Dawson⌠and it had no damage at all.
JT02 is the only persimmon I saw any leaf burn on and that was just on a couple of leaf tips.
TNHunter
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I am growing Garretson, H-118 (Prairie something), Yates, and some seedlings. Garretson is spectacular. So is H-118. I was growing Campbellâs NC-10? because I thought it was the earliest. Not early and bad tasting here.The others havenât fruited yet.
JohnS
PDX OR
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H118 is prairie star
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No, frost isnât always there from freezing temps. Always double check assumptions with CHAT GPT, I say.
temps can drop below freezing without frost showing, right. What humidity levels allow this?
ChatGPT said:
Yes, temperatures can drop below freezing without visible frost forming, depending largely on humidity and surface conditions. This phenomenon is often called a âblack frostâ or âfreeze without frost.â
Why it happens:
Frost is essentially visible ice crystals that form when moisture in the air condenses and freezes on surfaces. If thereâs not enough moisture in the air or on the surface, then ice doesnât form, even if the temperature is below freezing.
Humidity Levels and Frost Formation
- Frost typically forms when relative humidity is at least 85â90% near the surface, assuming temperatures are at or below 32°F (0°C).
- If relative humidity is lowerâespecially below ~70%âthere may not be enough water vapor in the air to condense and form visible frost, even if the temperature drops below freezing.
- Very dry air (RH < 50%) often results in no frost, because thereâs too little water vapor to deposit as ice.
Summary Table:
| Relative Humidity (RH) | Frost Formation Likely? |
|---|---|
| 90â100% | Very likely (if temps ⤠32°F) |
| 70â90% | Possible, depending on dew point |
| 50â70% | Unlikely, unless dew point near freezing |
| < 50% | Very unlikely â âblack frostâ possible |
Other Contributing Factors:
- Wind: Light wind can inhibit frost formation even when temps and RH are favorable.
- Cloud cover: Clear skies promote frost by allowing more radiative cooling.
- Surface exposure: Some surfaces cool faster and are more likely to form frost.
Practical Tip:
If youâre protecting plants or monitoring orchards, donât rely solely on the presence of frostâuse a thermometer and dew point measurements. A below-freezing night with low humidity can still damage buds or blooms even if no frost is visible.
I looked it up because I donât think leaves are killed by temps above freezing, not as you show in the photos at least.
The devil is in the details. Yes, leaves can be killed by temps above freezing. How?
Conditions can exist where the temperature falls to a point near freezing when there is little cloud cover and humidity is low where radiative cooling reduces leaf temperature below ambient air temperature. If air temp is 35F and radiative cooling takes leaf temperature below freezing, the leaf will desiccate and die. We tend to think of air temp as the be all end all, but in reality, microclimates and things like radiative cooling can cause significant differences.
Have I experience this first hand? Yes, in 2007 I had leaves on tomato plants killed with a measured outside temperature of 35F where conditions were ideal for radiative cooling.
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