Have you tried a Morus nigra? I had both MN and Gerardi in my greenhouse. Gerardi was dwarf for sure but the fruit wasn’t worth growing. MN on the other hand tastes spectacular and stays small compared to most mulberries. You have to be sure to get the real deal in a MN. Some are sold that aren’t real MN.
3 Likes
Here’s my IE last spring after heavy pruning. I’ve since added a Gerardi graft to a low branch and will do more pruning this year.
1 Like
I think that’s a great suggestion for AZ. It should be fully hardy there, produce great fruit, and stay small enough. I have a couple of them which have surprised me by actually making it through 4-5 winters here, though neither has grown very much (still 5-6’ tall and pretty narrow). Birds get almost all the fruit, but I had 1-2 half ripe fruit which were pretty good.
Gerardi initially left me un-impressed, but was pretty decent last year. But the only mulberry which has really impressed me in terms of fruit quality is Oscar. I think I’d rather have a bowl of it than blackberries or raspberries. And last year the birds left enough for me that I was actually able to do so (past years I’d only get 2-3 fruit a year). I got a decent amount of several other mulberries (IE and Pakistan being pretty good, a bit better than Geraldi). Wellington and Koksuo didn’t impress me, though I got lots of fruit from both. Neither was bad, but really not worth the effort.
Oscar on the other hand could be. I actually saved a bit of scionwood when I did my chainsaw pruning.
Oscar from last year:
6 Likes
I’m not sure how to tell which is a real MN. Many people sell them but when I look at youtube videos I see that some people end up with larger trees that are obviously not dwarf and others end up with more dwarf trees (so I’m worried about whether anything I purchase will be the real MN). If I end up with a bigger tree, I am worried about not being able to get it out of the ground; that has been my hesitation. I am definitely space limited.
I was given a few cuttings locally from a friend who has a dwarf black everbearing that is still small after 3 years, but the fruit is very tiny (like 1/4 in). One of the local nurseries had a tree in the ground that they called dwarf black everbearing, but it is a much larger tree than my friend’s tree.
I got the Gerardi from Whitmans today; I could graft other dwarfs onto it. It is grafted on Russion Mulberry
I was able to convince the city to let me plant Oscar, Black Pakistani, and Shangri la at the park that is one street away; those were planted in spring 2019 and are doing great (flood irrigated so they are happy).
1 Like
You can tell the real MN by the buds. Mulberries are named for color of buds in winter not by fruit color. You want a plant with large black buds. You’ll know it when you see it.
Morus nigra or not? Looking at the buds - General Fruit Growing - Growing Fruit
2 Likes
The fruit looks different too. I couldn’t find any pics of my Nigra, but here is one from online.
Compared to 2 different Gerardi trees:
Not only are the druplets shaped differently, but the Nigra’s fruit seems to not be as shiny. I’ve noticed the same thing on mine. While the Gerardi gets shiny as soon as it starts to get any coloring.
3 Likes
Hmm, I was going to put my weeping mulberry in-ground and buy a second this year. I was considering Gerardi, but maybe I should get an Oscar. Size would be something of a problem, though.
1 Like
The shangrila that we planted at the park is delicious. We haven’t gotten much production quite yet … and I suspect it will mostly go to the birds when we do. I don’t recall the Oscar or the Black Pakistani as memorable but the shangrila was (but last year was really the first year for any fruit on them). All of the varieties were purchased at trustworthy local nurseries so they should be the true variety. Their main purpose was for shade … but wanted to try to get fruit trees at the same time.
1 Like
In Phoenix, Richard’s Garden Center has a 7 year old weeping mulberry. It may have been from LE Cooke (they could probably tell you if you called them). The tree is about 6 ft tall and doesn’t have a huge trunk. I was just in their yesterday so I could see it when it was dormant. It was loaded with fruit last May and was pretty well spread out (takes some space in width, that is). LE Cooke had two different varieties of mulberry on their site (but I don’t believe they are growing any more … but the info is still up there)
1 Like
By the way, the Oscar that we planted in the ground (in the Phoenix AZ area) that is on flood irrigation is about 20 ft tall. It was planted in spring 2019. It is on rootstock (not sure what). It is looking like it will become fairly large. I pruned it the first few years, but I probably won’t be able to this year. The thinner branches are too high up for me to reach without a ladder. But the intention was to have shade so I did prune it with that in mind.
The Shangrila was on it’s own roots and was attached by some rodent the first year; I thought it was going to die, but it pulled through. It’s branching starts near the ground because of that first year damage so it is a much shorter tree. But the trunk is a good size
1 Like
I think that’s a Morus nigra. Certainly worth trying.
1 Like
Yes … the LE Cooke Black Beauty is morus nigra. I think the Gerardi is a combination but Whitmans lists it is a morus alba. It’s a dwarf tree so was thinking it might be one that I could graft onto the Gerardi. I believe it gets bigger than the Gerardi though. I was going to take the parent tree because the owner wanted to remove it from their property; it is about 4-5 years old; but it was around 10-12 feet tall with a 5" wide trunk so too big for me to dig out. The graft joint was at around 4 ft so was grown to be larger. I guess LE Cooke sold some with a higher graft point and some as bushes. It was a beautiful tree but had not fruited yet; chill hours are supposed to be 200 so it should have no problem fruiting in the Phoenix, AZ area. I did find someone else to re-home the tree to since the owner had not had a taker.
3 Likes
Gerardi is not an hybrid with morus nigra, very difficult to hybridize morus nigra with alba or others due to the chromossome difference.
Gerardi is most likely a hybrid between alba and red mulberry or alba with macroura or something like that.
3 Likes
planted with graft union below ground, will Gerardi root itself? Anyone with any experience out there on this one?
Scott
3 Likes
IE , Koksuo and oscar, seems like you prefer oscar? can you tell me more about how these two compare? i heard oscar was similar to IE
1 Like
It might root by itself or not. Some are difficult to root when burying the graft. The problem i have with burying the grafts union is the possibility of rot… sometimes i just put the graft union at the soil level, most of the times i leave the grafts union as they were made and plant the mulberries at the soil level they were in pots.
If i want them on their own roots, when the trees are bigger i just airlyer them, and then i have 2 trees, 1 grafted and the 2nd one on their own roots. Seems more safe, as you might loose the original if you bury it
4 Likes
It’s been a while since I sampled them, but I posted a lot in this thread last June:
I’ve read through the thread and here’s a slightly modified version of what I posted then:
1.) Oscar
2.) Taiwanese Everbearing
3.) Illinois Everbearing
4a.) Gerardi
4b.) Pakistan
5.) Kokuso
6.) Wellington
7.) Wild rootstock
Gerardi & Pakistan were added in a tie for 4th, even though they aren’t that similar. It’s just hard to figure out which to put ahead of the other, as they are quite different. I think Pakistan was more sweet, while Gerardi is more balanced sweet-tart. Pakistan has much larger fruit, but isn’t as productive and is more likely to have winter dieback.
To put context around the list, I would look to graft more Oscar. I’m not opposed to more of TE and IE, but am probably not motivated enough to do it.
Gerardi is good for limited spaces and I’ll keep any Pakistan I have (interesting novelty given the massively long berry length), but won’t graft more .
Wellington and the rootstock branches are to be actively eliminated. Which reminds me that I need to look up my graft locations at one of the rentals to figure out which branches to remove, without removing the nearby Oscar…
4 Likes
thank you! wellington was very similar to IE for me. and geradi dwarf was more tart than sweet. so im looking for favors similar to IE less tart or when eaten not fully ripe wont be too tart. Or sweeter like the pakistan. so ill have to get myself oscar due to your recommendations! twainese everbearing is it also called twainese four seasons? are they the same?
1 Like
Oscar has plenty of sweet and tart (like a reasonably ripe blackberry), so you may not like it if you don’t want any tart. But it was just about perfect from my tastes, as it had plenty of sweet to go with the tart. Kokuso and Wellington were boringly mild, but if you are looking for no tart, then they could be it. And as Scott pointed out to me in the other thread, I was picking many of the Kokuso too early, even though they were falling off at the slightest touch. So, if you can get them to ripen further without falling, they could get sweeter.
I don’t have any other info on Taiwanese Everbearing, other than that Sam sent me the wood in 2017. It is similar to Oscar in that it has plenty of tart to go with the sweet.
2 Likes