This is probably a dumb question. The apple trees that I am going to espalier should arrive this weekend. What wire would you recommend using for the support? I would normally go to a hardware store and “feel” different options. With the lockdown, I am trying to order a spool online. Any suggestions regarding the gauge, material etc? Many thanks.
Here is what I use for grapes. Tractor Supply still open.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/utility--amp-brace-wire-9-ga?cm_vc=-10005
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I used this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hillman-100-ft-150-lb-12-Gauge-Galvanized-Wire-122339/203721762
If I was doing it I’d probably use high tensile wire.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I ended up ordering a spool of 12 gauge steel wire from Amazon with the same specs Udhay suggested.
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That should be fine… I have 12ga runs that are around 20 years old and which are still going strong.
Poles is what I made the mistake on, I used pressure treated wood. They all rotted at the base. All of them I had to add additional stakes at the base to hold them up.
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Why did the pressure treated wood rot? I’m going to need a grape trellis.
Wood in the ground rots, there is not much you can do about it. I saw a rating of 10-15 years somewhere for treated wood poles. It is really not all that hard to reinforce them, I have been doing a couple poles each year as they go bad. But a steel pole would be a better long-term approach.
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I am glad to hear that metal poles are not a bad choice! I’ve been waiting for ‘a guy I know’ to sink some pressure treated poles for a grape arbor, for me. And since that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen . . . I thought I’d improvise and get those heavy ‘garden poles’ with the wire ‘guides’ on the back, and the shovel-like bottoms. I’ve been using those (and the lighter version) as stakes for my young fruit trees. I can hammer those in by myself, if necessary.
For the wire.
Being an artist, I have an old spool of plastic covered framing wire. It is braided stainless steel, covered with plastic, and rated at 500-lb. It became ‘sticky’ - as some plastic, petroleum-based items, can - and is too nasty to use to hang paintings anymore. I rarely paint anything (if ever) that requires that heavy a wire. So - I think I’ll repurpose it and use it on the grape arbor! Hope it will be strong enough.
My 6 new vines came in the fall and they have been ‘heeled in’ out in my veggie garden since they arrived. If the weather isn’t too awful, this weekend . . . I think I’ll give the arbor a try. We have had so much rain, over the past month or so - (Although it makes it easier to dig or sink a stake), I hate digging holes when the soil is so wet. But, there is one good thing about it - One gets to see just how well the soil drains - or NOT!
Time will tell how well it’s going to work, but I used eight-foot splits of black locust for the main support posts for my espalier. Supposed to be very rot resistant.
I believe I also used twelve gauge wire. Didn’t do the most artistic job of stringing it, but it seems to be holding up fine. Because I’m doing a Belgian fence, the trees are actually trained to a criss-cross of bamboo which is tied to the wire. Seems to lend a little more support.
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I used 1/8" stainless steel cable bought on ebay, with end fittings from Stainless Cable & Railing company. Not the cheapest option but it looks good and is pretty strong. Here is a writeup on my espalier trellis:
Like @JinMA I have bamboo poles ziptied to the cables for the elements of the design that are not parallel to the horizontal cables so I can strap down growing shoots with more flexibility and with a guide of where they ought to be heading.
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HollyGates, your setup looks great and I am sure it will last for years. The amount of planning and work is unbelievable.
I am also putting my espaliered trees along a fence. Planning to do a four-tiered horizontal cordon with one tree occupying the width of one eight-foot fence panel. I am going to drive 6 inch eyelet screws into the fence posts, and string the wire between them. Will post pictures when it’s done.
I was also a little concerned about adding all the weight onto one side of the fence. I did dig down to 40" and used extra concrete when setting the fence posts (the frost line here is 36"). Hopefully that suffices. I will monitor for any signs of leaning, and if I notice any I may have to convert to two freestanding end posts on either side of the cordon.
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One thing I didn’t expect was that I would want more standoff distance between the wires and the fence panel. Having more space allows better air circulation and to let a few spurry twigs go backwards off the arms. I feel like what I did was close to the minimum I would want but I suppose it is just affects how you are going to have to do pruning and training. I’ve seen pictures of designs with the wires being almost right against the backing surface. Anyway, apples that hang off the backward reaching twigs don’t ripen quite as well as the ones coming off forward or upward twigs.
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As far as fence posts go, I didn’t like the idea of a fencepost that was only going to last 10 years to hang trees that might last 50 off of. Well, I’ve had to replace three of my trees already, so maybe this was a misguided thought! What I did was to put in concrete piers in the ground and then run cedar posts up from those. It was way more expensive and a ton of work. If I were doing it again I would probably order black locust posts even though they are expensive.
We got our black locust from this place in Western Mass:
http://www.ablacklocustconnection.com
Had a good experience with them. Eight-foot split rails were twenty dollars each (we picked them up, so no delivery cost). Kind of a more rustic look, but not unattractive. They also offer milled lumber but I imagine that would be significantly more expensive.
Our espalier is free-standing, not against a wall, so the set-up is a little different in that regard, and I tend to think that the Belgian fence is a little less demanding in terms of stress on the supports.
How far do you space the rungs on a horizontal cordon for apples? There’s not a lot of information online. Starks recommends 16 inches, and I haven’t found much else.
Trying to decide whether I should go with three rungs spaced 16" apart, or if I could get away with four rungs 14" apart. How close is too close?
How vigorous is your rootstock and scion? The commercial orchard I worked for was setup on 4 wire espalier, I’d guess the spacing at 18" apart with the first wire 18" off the grou d but that was an older semi-dwarf rootstock.
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They are all dwarf rootstock, G11 I believe. Not sure about the scions, I just put them in this spring.
I really like plastic monofilament. It doens’t require as much tension and is easier to work with.
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@murky, you have captured my interest. 700 lbs is not much though and how much will it stretch under a load?
@urbangardener, i have a 3 wire system using 9 wire with wire vises and the first is 21 inches from the ground and 21inches apart.
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