Hey guys! I’m looking to test out growing some American persimmons, and am curious if you have any suggestions on a variety I can order online. I have had persimmons in the south where they grew wild…I am not sure what type they were exactly, but the fruit was very astringent when unripe but with an extremely soft melt in your mouth texture and with a rum-like (without the alcohol) taste when ripe.
I need something cold-hardy but would like to try to get something with the same taste I am used to. I hear some can taste like apricot, I am trying to avoid that as those wild persimmons tasted nothing like apricots to me. Also, I guess something self pollinating would be ideal? Are all varieties attractive to honey bees?
So far I am honing in on Meader and Keener. Thank you for any suggestions or input!!
Hello there. Welcome to the forum. What’s your location/growing zone? That will help people be able to give the best recommendations. There’s plenty of helpful folks here who can help you make a great choice.
This is a topic that is widely discussed on this forum. People have strong views but there’s not much consensus. Consider this just one guy’s 2 cents.
FWIW, after a lot of reading of other people’s recommendations, I decided to trial H63A, Barbra’s Blush, Dollywood, Morris Burton, and H-118. Most of these ripen fairly early, but early ripening is more important to me here than it may be for you. So far I have fruited the first three. H63A is the best, IMO. It is early ripening, the skin is shiny and unblemished, it loses astringency when ripe, and the fruit hangs on the tree when ripe. This last criterion is controversial. Many American persimmons detach at the calyx and the drop to the ground. This makes them easy to harvest, but it opens them to mold and exposes them to bacteria on the ground (e.g., deer droppings). I’d rather pick them by cutting the stem, getting a nice clean intact fruit, which is what you have to do with Asian persimmons.
Hello @Ahouse422 I’d say something that can handle a bout or two of -25F a year would work just fine.
Thanks @jrd51 I will look at those varieties and see if I can find any “tasting notes”. Definitely want to go with more of the sweet notes of rum route compared to the apricot tasting varieties.
Meader may be the only one that can handle those kind of cold temps. I would definitely start with it. Possibly followed by Garretson and Early Golden. You will want any tree on Diospyros virginiana- the cold hardiest rootstock for persimmons.
-25F isn’t that bad. @snowflake knows as good as anyone what works in colder climates. There are many american persimmons that can handle those temperatures.
Yes, most of the northern varieties should be able to handle -30F or colder… with some getting more burn back than others at the coldest temps. There has been some discussion about that on here.
Thanks everyone. Leaning Meader right now, the only con I can find is fruit possibly on the smaller side. If anyone knows of a cold hardy variety with the same taste as Meader, but bigger fruit and still self pollinating let me know! Excited to test things out.
To be clear, Americans are generally parthenocarpic, more or less. This means that they will bear seedless fruit without pollination, which is good. No pollination is required. They are not generally self-pollinating. In fact, most named varieties produce no male flowers.
You want seedless fruit. So you should prevent pollination by not planting any trees that produce male flowers. Make flowers arise in two ways: (1) Sometimes the grafted variety makes male flowers. I’d suggest avoiding these varieties. (2) Often the seedling rootstock is male and will pop root suckers that could produce male flowers. Remove root suckers and remove all growth from the rootstock itself.
Everything I’ve read suggests Meader isn’t really worth grafting except in areas with short, cool summers. It doesn’t have much improvement over the average wild seedling. Almost any American persimmon will meet your hardiness requirements, as will some of the hybrids. I don’t yet have personal experience with the various flavors, but H65A (Paradise), H-118 (Early Jewel), Prok, Yates, and Mohler are all early and come highly recommended.
Thank you! Interesting on the male flowers and thanks for the info. I’m not sure I’d mind the seeds but I guess seedless might be nice. As far as grafting, that’s not something I’m looking to get into, I’m basically trying to find a tree that’s as close to the wild persimmons I’m used to, plant one or two and hopefully be set.
I haven’t tried every variety out there but in my mind the flavor of those wild persimmons would be hard to beat! Seems like Meader has a little more cold tolerance from what I’m reading and seems to be a little closer from what I can gather regarding flavor to a wild persimmon. Also I see Meader is described as self pollinating but sounds like maybe they all are to some extent. Thank you for all the suggestions and input so far! Will keep reading and by all means any more suggestions welcome!
Good comments. I would just note that there seem to be at least 2 versions (or perhaps one correctly labeled version but another incorrectly labeled version) of Prok in circulation. There are very divided opinions about it. Mine was purchased from Stark, and frankly is was a huge disappointment – not worth eating. At best, bland; at worst, terminally astringent. Some commentators blamed my cool, short season. But H63A and Barbra’s Blush were excellent here – grafted onto “Prok.”
If you buy Prok, be sure to get it from someone who has fruited it and can vouch for its flavor and timely non-astringency.
There is not many people saying they love Prok. Just like you, I grafted mine over. I think Prok got a lot of marketing hype and the people that like it have not tasted very many.
Like the original poster I too am looking for that caramel (or rum) flavor and I’m thinking Mohler is next on my need to get list. Sadly most varieties have the standard apricot like flavor.
I haven’t seen many divided opinions on Prok. It’s a mild, smooth flavor if it’s the actual Prok. Generally well regarded. It depends on a person’s preference though.