Like many things in life, moderation is important. Especially with foods such as lard. Sugar is another we tend to abuse.
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Iāve always said you can overdo it on that moderation stuff ā¦
;-)M
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My Hudsonās Golden Gem were huge this year (I thinned early and often- right into late summer), but you are right, they are so low on acid and so grainy in texture (like most russets, but more so) they are often confused for pears. I still have some in my well house after giving a lot away, and they havenāt kept well. They are still sweet but close to mushy. Off the tree people tend to love them but I would only use them in a pie as a blending apple. Then again, poached Bosc pears are a classic French dessert as are pear tarts and with pears as low in acid as HGJ- maybe the trick is adding a bit of lemon juice.
Because Wolf River (at least the ones I am growing) are just not that great. Big and disease resistant sure but flavour is nothing exciting. Nor is texture.
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Iām a bit of a heathen. I keep boxes of the original tender flake deep dish pie crusts in the freezer (ones made with lard). I buy them in bulk from a restaurant supply store and they come out to $1.50 each and are as good or better than any homemade crust Iāve made for WAY less work. Thaw a vacuumed sealed bag of sliced northern spy overnight in the fridge. Add sugar, flour, cinnamon, nutmeg and a bit of allspice and mix up. Toss in a glass deep dish pie pan and then cover with a 5min thawed pie crust. 10 min prep time and pie is in the oven!
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In todayās apple crisp, Ladies Sweeting, Mother, Red Canada, Rhode Island Greening, Smokehouse, and Winesap. Like cider, a blend of apples, sweet and tart, can make a better pie than a single variety, with only Northern Spy a possible exception.
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I grew up with my family using lard as well. Both my grandmothers had a 5 gallon metal tub of lard next to the stove and kitchen counter.
That pie crust recipe makes a double pie crust correct?
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Which suggests to me that they really arenāt very sophisticated in their knowledge of applesā¦ and Honeycrisp as a baking apple! I thought it was all about the crunch with that apple, which cannot survive the oven. It is famous among apple snobs for a relative lack of aromatics. It does have an appealing balance of acid and sugar though, so maybe thatās it.
I do wonder how culinary schools where chefs often learn skills before beginning their careers teach about all the subtleties of the ingredients used in recipes- especially fruits and vegetables. It would be great if any have huge gardens and orchards on their campuses. That is almost the only way one can really have a deep understanding of the most subtle points of essential ingredients.
I have a brother-in-law who has a successful career as a chef in Dallas (you should have seen the spread his crew created for his wedding) who is fascinated by the unusual or just unusually good things he finds on my property when he visits during he harvest season. There is a reason so many U.S. culinary trends begin in CA with itās almost endless harvest season and nearly perfect weather for growing a very wide range of produce.
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Or that the article was aimed at consumers who had limited options at their grocery stores.
But i agree that honeycrisp is an odd choice for a pie apple.
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@alan and @Ginda: I was a bit surprised by the recommendations as well, particularly the Honeycrisp, though I have baked with Honeycrisp in the past when I didnāt have enough other apples handy and had it come out well. (The local-ish Honeycrisp that we get here tend to have a decent amount of tang, which came through pretty well as I recall.)
I guess we shouldnāt necessarily expect pastry chefs to be fruit variety aficianados, at least not as a general rule. And of course, their recommendations may also reflect the economics of the restaurant business in NYC, at least for places that arenāt on the super high end (and it looks like the places surveyed in the article mostly arenāt, at least by NYC standards).
Good question. It looks like the Culinary Institute of America offers a Farm to Table concentration that may involve the kind of things youāre thinking about, though it doesnāt look like itās an integral part of the overall program. (Kind of in your neck of the woods, I think?)
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MikeC:
Yes that recipe makes 2 crusts.
JinMa: Wow someone likes Honeycrisp for a pie? I guess that is good as apples are like beer. Each
person has their own preference. I recall when Honeycrisp first came out (actually I had them
3 years before they were officially named) I tried making a pie out of them. Worst pie I ever
made. I got a good laugh out of the descriptions all the tree growers gave for Honeycrisp in
the years following as all stated that it was good for cooking and excellent for fresh use. I do
not agree but I suppose someone out there likes Honeycrisp for pie making.
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I hear you! I feel like Iāve come across three pretty distinct types of Honeycrisp (donāt know if theyāre actually different strains or if itās a matter of growing and storage conditions):
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Large, crunchy, but watery, with not much flavor at all. Not good for much of anything.
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Large, crunchy, and super sweet, but not much flavor otherwise. My wife and daughter like them for eating but I find them overly sweet.
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Smaller, more locally grown, crunchy, and with significantly more tang, almost a pineapple-like taste. These are the ones that Iāve found to be ok for baking with (but better mixed with other varieties).
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We mostly use Newtown Pippins, sweet tart and doesnāt get mushy. I make a lot of pie filling and can it up in a water bath and have to say, they still hold their shape and firmness after baking.
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Summarizing, some that have been recommended so far are: (and edited to move the ones with more mentions to the top)
Calville Blanc 6
Granny Smith 5
Northern Spy 4
GoldRush 4
Jonagold 4
Jonathan 3
Reine des Reinette 3
Baldwin 3
Newtown Pippin 3
Mutsu 2
Spigold 2
Cortland 2 (too much juice)
Arkansas Black 2
Belle de Boskoop 2
Fuji 2
Cinnamon Spice 2
Rome 2
King David 2
Zabergau Reinett 2
Reinette Gris
Reinette Gris du Canada (same a above?)
Crimson crisp
Idared
Claygate Pearmain
Esopus Spitzenburg
Rhode Island Greening
Pink Lady
Empire
Lamb Abbey
Redfield
Claygate
Shockley
Bakerās Delight
Chanticleer
Golden russet
Macintosh (tasty mush to blend with firmer ones)
Airliesās Red
Golden Delicious
Pink Lady
Gala
Braeburn
Yellow Transparent
Antonovka
Katherine
Vixen
Pink parfait
Peasgood Nonsuch
Norfolk Beefing
Pink Pearl
Ashmeadās kernel
Spice Sweet (sweet)
Pound Sweet
Wolf River
Winesap
NW Greening
Regent
Cornish Aromatic
Kinnairds Choice
Holly
Green Pippin
Johnsonās Keeper
Hudson Golden Gem
Monarch
Oliver
Terry
Peasgood Nonsuch
Norfolk Beefing
Crimson Peasgood
Striped Beefing
Howesgate Wonder
Ladies Sweeting
Mother
Red Canada
Rhode Island Greening
Smokehouse
Winesap
Apologies if I missed your contribution, or counted you twice.
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Yeah, Iāve eaten in their restaurant a couple of times- best value in my area. One of my clients graduated from it as a cooking hobbyist with lots of money and time to spare. He wouldnāt let me grow Jonagold on his property because a teacher he absolutely hated considered it the best culinary apple heād ever used.
To tell you the truth, after several experiences at the fanciest and most expensive restaurants in NYC over the years, Iāve never been all that impressed with what Iāve received as far as showcasing either great fruit or vegetables, except maybe in Chinatown with vegies. Focus is usually on the protein portion of the dinner.
For fruit and vegetable based dishes, nothing is as good in these restaurants as what my wife cooks me at home, although variety can be nice and different cooking and serving styles hold their interest.
Stone Barns has become an extremely popular and critically praised restaurant fairly close to me and I was originally employed as a consultant when planning stages began. I steered them away from trying to grow organic fruits because this was several years before the introduction of Surround.
I donāt know what has happened since, although in early stages the main gardener visited my orchard-nursery. I canāt even remember if I sold him any trees, but he had a lot of questions for me. I do know they grow a lot of their own vegetables, at least, but Iāve never ventured to make the long wait reservation required to eat a meal there.
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The ones that I can get in the supermarket are:
Granny Smith 5
Cortland 2 (too much juice)
Fuji 2
Macintosh (tasty mush to blend with firmer ones)
Pink Lady (briefly)
Gala
Braeburn
Golden Delicious
The ones I can reliably get at a local farm stand or orchard are:
Calville Blanc 6
Crimson crisp
Jonathan 3
Rome 2
Idared
Empire
Golden russet
Ashmeadās kernel
Hudson Golden Gem
The ones I might be able to get locally, but Iām not sure are:
Northern Spy 4
GoldRush 4
Jonagold 4
Baldwin 3 (a local orchard grows it, but only has it some years)
Newtown Pippin 3
Spigold 2
Mutsu 2
Esopus Spitzenburg
Yellow Transparent
Pink Pearl
Pound Sweet
Wolf River
Winesap
NW Greening
Mother
Rhode Island Greening
Winesap
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I went to a wedding there this summer. Some of the āwalking appetizersā showcased fresh veggies. There was a huge dripping piece of fennel which was hard to eat, but tasty. (dripping with some sauce). And when my husband said he didnāt eat fish, they gave him a replacement dish with some of the tastiest mushrooms Iāve ever had. (He doesnāt eat mushrooms, either, so I ate his, after he picked them out of his dish).
The food was very good, but what was really impressive, imo, was the service, and the range of substitutions they had for people with āfood allergies or foods you prefer to avoidā. And yes, there was more focus on the proteins than on the produce. But the produce was all excellent. Just mostly not showcased.
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I find many apples good for pies and I canāt remember which ones I liked the most. But GoldRush and Reine des Reinettes have both made very memorable pies for me. I usually do a mix, having some soft as well as some firm apples makes the ideal pie to me.
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Id wager harvest window is the biggest variable there. Artificial ripening is practically the rule for large commercial apple ventures, and its not failsafe. At best, it produces an inferior fruit albeit it months (even a year) later
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