For apples I have good success grafting on rootstocks that have been potted for about 6 weeks. I receive the rootstocks bareroot in early spring, pot them and wait for them to start leafing. Need to be careful to not apply too much pressure to the trunk in order to avoid disturbing the roots since they aren’t established yet. This approach didn’t work for peaches and plums though, need to wait longer to let roots get established, but apples are easy (pears too).
Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I’m getting ready to graft my persimmon rootstocks and I’m not quite sure this part has been addressed. I’ve seen the recommendations for 70’s daytime temps for outside. My indoor space doesn’t get quite that warm just yet, but comes close on sunny days. Since it’s inside, the nighttime lows don’t go down as far (just to about 60). Since the lows aren’t as low, will these temps be sufficient? Or is 70-ish the minimum temp for the callus tissue to form? Sadly, a hot callus pipe isn’t in the cards this year, but I may be able to jerry-rig something with a covered plastic tub and a heat mat to get those extra few degrees. Or should I stick my rootstocks out on the cooler mudroom/porch to slow them down until temps are more favorable? It’s been unseasonably cool here and long-range forecasts show that pattern holding at least for the next week or two.
There’s no rush. I’ll be grafting for 30-35 days (anything and everything) outdoors.
I’m in the same boat. I have 5 persimmon rootstocks planted in pots and Nakita’s Gift and Saijo scions in the fridge. I was going to wait to the rootstock starts pushing out leaves before grafting. The weather has been so poor, the rootstocks have not started showing signs of growth yet. I’d say wait till it warms up a little.
My thoughts on persimmon / temperature .
50 deg.F growth is almost stopped .
60 deg. F growth , very slow
70 deg.F growth decent amount
75-85 deg. F growth rapid , healing optimized .
90 - above to hot.
Night time temps mater too. So a cool spring ,outside ,is hard.
Below 70deg. My take rate drops…
I am currently keeping grafts in my warm room(75- 80deg F)
But holding off until it warms a little for outside grafting.
Outside , here, persimmons have broke dormancy, small buds / leafs coming out , but really slow , as it is still cool at night.
Many bare root grafts will fit in ,say , a five gallon bucket to heal 2-3 weeks. So does not take up much space.
But should be warm.
I’m still definitely going to hold them inside; I guess I wasn’t very clear on that. My rootstocks are starting to wake up, but room temp is still 65-70 during the day. I may move the rootstocks out to slow them down until the daytime temps come up a bit more, which will also up the inside temps in that room. Or, I may try to make a warm box for them.
That temp breakdown is really helpful! I glanced at the forecast for your neck of the woods, and you are decidedly warmer than we are the next 10 days. If you’re holding off, outside would probably be a loooong wait for me.
My success rate from first batch is 10/10. My callusing pipe can only hold 10 at a time. All pushing green growth now. Several from second batch are also pushing now.
Can you share pics of your callusing pipe? Thanks
A chip bud ,pushing.
Ok … I should have moved this to a area with more light…
. About 2 days ago. It has doubled in size in the last 24 hrs.
At 85 deg.F High humidity ,.24/7 … 2+ weeks on a strong root.
Moved to filtered light to green up.
Will put outside soon.
Note , white line. To tell where “the bud” is.
I have been putting this white line (with a paint marker ) on the rootstock, put my chip bud ON the line.
Any sprouts , Not ON the line get removed. Quickly .
In the end. Checking to be sure " THE chip bud" is what is growing. This has saved me so much time.
Some years. With some persimmon rootstock. Once grafted an cut back . Sprouts come out everywhere , for a long time.
Making it time consuming , to remove the ones from the rootstock , every 3 days or so, making sure , to keep only the chip bud. By putting that line on there, and wrapping in such a way that you know where “that bud” is on the line.
Will save time , life is short…?
I have good luck with dormant bench grafting of persimmons. I just keep them at room temprature for a while or plant directly in June when it’s getting warm outside. I plant them late as possible so, they don’t get to big and I have some chance of digging out of the nursery bed in the Spring.
What’s your room temp? We keep our house cooler than most but warmer than some…
it’s 65-7f0 average in my shop by time I get around to grafting them.
Ok, from reading all of this, my interpretation is that 65-70 is OK, 70-75 is better, and 75-85 is best for persimmons. I think I figured out a way to get my graft unions up to at least the 70-75 range with materials on hand. I’ll do a trial run with a few grafts hopefully this evening and share some pictures of my jankety setup.
Persimmon grafts took best for me when the temp at 70 to 80 degrees for two weeks straight.
I’m curious how much variation people see regarding when a graft pushes between different varieties of persimmon. I’ve got a good number of grafts I’ve taken off a hot callousing pipe and now see several kaki grafts with nice green growth starting, but only one of my American types (prairie star) is showing a green tip and only Kasandra among the hybrids is showing green. I’m hoping they are just taking longer to wake up and start pushing, but I’ve never seen this much variation based on variety with other fruits so I’m getting a bit nervous.
Nah, you’re right on schedule, Walter. Kaki and hybrids I’ve seen break earlier but remember that any cultivar might, doesn’t matter the species. Right now I’m seeing an abundance of Prok and I-115 with Valeene beauty (yes) breaking also on the pipe, however you’ll see that patterns are patterns whether from where your scion may have been collected in relation to the amount of growing days in their climate vs. yours and on and on, really, truly. Trees adapt. I should say hardwood’s adapt. You remove them from a different climate & they will need to adapt to yours. There’s so many factors to notice or consider when grafting; heck I’m only talking scions. Rootstocks are the other half; seed-providence, on and on.
Well, after some consideration, overthinking, and then seeing what was staring me in the face, here’s my “good enough” solution. Depending on exactly how close the graft union is to the lamp, they should be sitting anywhere from 72-85 degrees. I made a little padding so the rootstock won’t lean directly on the hottest part of the lamp.
I was originally going to do all chip buds, but I took stock and realized I have enough to do standard top grafts and add some chip buds as well. These are all whip and tongue. I was surprised how easy to work the persimmon wood is. I had read that it was very hard/tough. Other than some of the skinnier pieces being a little wobbly when wrapping, it was very cooperative. I managed to do six in under an hour while supervising a toddler. Which is fast for me…
I was just potting up my persimmons last night, and some of them had lovely root suckers sprouting up! I was glad I had the opportunity to break them off before putting them in pots. I wonder if the bench grafting makes them more or less liable to sucker, or if it’s mostly genetics.