I didn’t spray my trees this year, and so I have many apples damaged by codling moths/worms/maggots…and I am wondering if I can just grind and press as usual, or do I need to spend some time trying to cut out the damaged fruit? I don’t know what variety of apple they are, because the trees were planted over fifty years ago, but the apples are small, ripe, and ready for picking, and averaging only 1 1/2 in. to 2 inches. The tree is about thirty feet high, with many apples beyond reach, but there are probably 3 or 4 bushels I can reach anyway–and I don’t want to spend a lot of time and energy cutting out maggots and damaged cores from hundreds and hundreds of eensy, teensy little apples.
And my other consideration is making the cider–as I did last year–WITHOUT SULFITES.
By keeping everything clean, sterile, and having a PH of 3.5 (acidity 6.9g/L), I made 8 gallons last year without any sulfites (I have purchased some malic acid to add, if I need to lower PH, but I am still trying to figure out the formula/procedure for sampling and testing, how much to add, & etc…) Need to figure that out too, before pressing.
I asked an area commercial cider maker and orchardist what he planned to do about CM, and he said he didn’t do anything - it all went in the mix. Makes and sells a lot cider. I don’t know how heavily he gets hit with CM but essentially he said he couldn’t care less (although his language was perhaps a bit more colorful.)
I don’t spray for codling moth. And the cider is wonderful.
A cider mill I worked at years ago , the rule was …
A bad spot bigger than you can cover with you thumb gets discarded . Everything else goes in. Cider was good.
I am more particular with mine , I discard all noticeable bad.
Many years , shaking big seedling trees onto tarps,
Sorting , and press. Same day.
It would certainly be historically accurate cider. Cider is historically drunk fairly fresh, and probably turned to vinegar with age. I imagine that they would become apple brandy if they caused an off flavor.
I have found that my cider tastes better and better with age. And even though it is a single variety cider of an unknown variety, it tastes better than most you will find at the grocery store or bottle shop.
A guy out here tried making cider with moth infested apples and said you could taste the mold and it wasnt good. Maybe he discarded the juice without trying to ferment it? I dont really know.
We are usually pretty particular here with making juice.
My complaint is it’s often too sweet. I’m not particularly fond of hard cider, but have thought about trying a lacto fermented beverage like kombucha with juice.
I know…not really a helpful comment for the thread. Just my thinking in print.
Don’t be afraid of sulfites. KMBS is really helpful for making hard cider and maintaining its quality. A lot of folks think they’re allergic to it but aren’t. The threshold for human sensory perception of it is generally much higher than what would go into a cider.
30’ tall trees and you’re only using the apples you can reach?! A crime! Shake the branches with a long pole with a hook. Throw down some tarps if you don’t want them touching the ground. However many apples you need, you’ll have em quicker that way.
I can’t tell what you’re trying to get measurement advice on above. For TA, you can pick up an acid test/titration kit for $10-20. Nothing more than sodium hydroxide, an indicator, and some ‘precise’ measuring tools (cheap syringe, most likely.) They’re really easy to use. The indicator will last forever, but you should replace the sodium hydroxide from season to season. For pH, I’d recommend a cheap digital meter, maybe $20. Use it to determine KMBS levels necessary should you choose to add it. As for accurately measuring Malic or other additives in small quantities, a precision digital scale that goes to maybe 10 grams is great. I use a scale for reloading ammo. I’ve heard you can get good ones at head shops as well. Trying for any precision using teaspoons and such is crazy!
I appreciate your thoughts on my behalf, and concern for my cider. Thank you. Some of the apples are just fine, some are not ugly, and some are ugly indeed. I think I will grind up the apples that are good looking and those that are not too noticeably bad for fermenting. For drinking any fresh, I would be sure to be more careful and discard or cut out all the bad parts before pressing.
I don’t care for the sweet ciders either. I paid $13 for a four-pack of Samuel Smith’s Organic cider last week that is way too sweet–and tastes more like the Angry Orchard which cost me $10 for 24 bottles. (I like the Angry Orchard better actually!) I prefer dry cider, “bone dry,” and the English style ciders.
My wife made some Kombucha that turned out very good. She used many different fruits and juices (in different batches), and some I liked better than others–and apple was one I liked best.
I did buy some Potassium Metabisulfite last September, but didn’t use it because the PH was only 3.5 and acidity 6.9 g/L. I read that the sulfite has only a one year shelf life and should be replaced every year. Should I buy some fresh “KMBS?” Is there a brand or supplier you can recommend to me?
I do have an acid test kit, and I bought two extra syringes for it this year because the numbers wear off slightly each time you use it…so after four or five uses half are gone and you have to estimate. (I used a kit last year, and bought another this year.) And I have a digital PH meter I used years ago for hydroponic gardening that makes doing the tests much, much easier and accurate. And I have the digital scale too, for measuring the powdered ingredients.
I was thinking I may need to add malic acid to bring the PH down and prevent contamination and the need for sulfites, but the sulfites would definitely take away some of the worry I am sure.
I was trying to get advice on measuring the amounts of malic acid. The package I have says to add 3.4g per gal. to adjust solution +.1%. So I am assuming if my juice is 6.2 g/L, or .62%, and I want 6.8 g/L, or .68%, I would need to add 3.4g x .6, or about 2g per gallon. Correct?
The trouble is in making adjustments to smaller samples (like 100ml) for taste testing, and then converting those numbers to gallons. I suppose I can just make a test for TA, convert to % by moving decimal point, then add malic acid to a whole gallon and sample that (before dumping the gallon into a 5 gallon bucket for fermenting). The formulas for smaller amounts (like 100ml) get confusing, but may be worth figuring out–so that I can try the juice with different amounts/percentages of acid and determining what I like best. I like English style dry ciders.
I think I can taste the maggots in some of his ciders! Seriously though, I would like to check out is cidery and taste all the different ciders he makes, but I find I like his less expensive Poor Man’s canned cider better than his more expensive $9 bottle stuff. I like the Lockhorn Bone Dry cider made in Bozeman best, made without sulfites.
Being cursed with nothing but high acid apples, I haven’t had to adjust TA up, so I can only hypothesize. Since you can’t remove it once added, I’d definitely add malic in multiple divided doses, testing between them, and confirm the validity of the given instructions.
A brief soap-box stand: I started doing everything in metric. It’s especially nice here because 1 gram per liter is 0.1% by weight as1 liter of water weighs 1000 grams. 1 gallon weighs 8.somethin pounds. 1-oz/gallon = “seemingly random”% by weight. Gimme metric all day long! (With respect to sulfites, tables for additions are usually given in ppm which is, VERY conveniently, 1mg/liter)
Since you’re shooting for a 0.6g/L increase, you’re talking about a 0.06% increase. So, yeah, 3.4*0.6 = 2.04g/gal… call it 2.
I wonder how much rounding they are doing in the malic instruction sheet. 3.4g/gal = 0.9g/L. I’m confused about how adding 0.9g/L malic can increase the amount of malic by 1g/L. The error is small, but still…
It’s another reason I’d add malic in divided doses until I got a good feel of it. Maybe 80% of the dose first, then enough to ‘nail’ what I’m shooting for? I’d also track pH as I went as it could drop, possibly more than I’d want, as well. Again, I’ve never done this, so I’m just sharing how I’m thinking about it.
Powdered KMBS will lose strength over time. Significantly within a year? Maybe. Tightly sealed, maybe not. Over several years… yeah, just buy a new batch. Once you make a solution, I’d use it immediately (within a day or so) or toss it. I get mine in 1lb bags from northern brewer. I’m sure there are 100 other places that sell it at the same-ish price. It’s pretty inexpensive, especially compared to losing 5 gallons of something great. 1lb is way more than I need in a year by a lot. I’d rather have extra than run out when I need it.
Hopefully something here is useful.
Soapbox again: Metric is sooooo much easier to use! …I can’t help myself. Sorry.
Need to figure that out too, before pressing.
Shake the branches with a long pole with a hook. Throw down some tarps if you don’t want them touching the ground. However many apples you need, you’ll have em quicker that way.
Seriously though, I would like to check out is cidery and taste all the different ciders he makes, but I find I like his less expensive Poor Man’s canned cider better than his more expensive $9 bottle stuff. I like the Lockhorn Bone Dry cider made in Bozeman best, made without sulfites.