Grafting American persimmon on Asian persimmon rootstock

Is D. Virginiana graft compatible on D. Kaki rootstock? We know the other direction works as D. Kaki trees are sometimes sold on D. Virginiana rootstock (DWN though prefers to use D. Lotus rootstock). I see a couple of posts with the same question, but no definitive answer. I also asked around on CRFG mailing list, not many answers there either. I remember @Marta saying she tried it and it was not successful. I am trying a few techniques and documenting them here

  1. Graft hybrids (D.V x D.K) on D. Kaki in year 1. Next year, graft D.V onto the hybrids. I see a few posts that say both of these grafts should work individually.
  2. Double grafting, aka do both the grafts in (1) at the same time
  3. Directly graft D.V on D.K. This is likely to be a failure but I am wondering if this works for some varieties
  4. Not really an answer, but give up and order D.V or D. Lotus rootstock to graft D.V cultivars

I am starting all of them this year. We will see how it goes.

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For (1) I grafted Nikita’s Gift, Gora Roman Kosh, Chuchupaka, Kandy Corn and Kasandra on Jiro Fuyu (from DWN), a vigorous tree. The first two I grafted, after the tree leafed out in spring. All of them took and growing well. The remaining, I grafted couple of weeks back, which is uncharacteristically late for my area. They had to endure a heat wave and I am not sure if I chose this year’s wood or last year’s on the Fuyu rootstock. I am not expecting a lot of success for the latter ones.

For (2), I tried

Barbra’s Blush → Chuchupaka → Fuyu
H63A → Nikita’s Gift → Fuyu
100-46 → Nikita’s Gift → Fuyu
Deer Magnet → Nikita’s Gift → Fuyu

Again late grafts and none of these have leafed out yet.

For (3) Deer Candy and Barbra’s Blush are grafted directly on Fuyu a month or so back. They are starting to leaf out

Thanks to @Stan, @ramv and @Barkslip for the scions!!! Special thanks to Dax for sending multiple packages while nursing an injury!


I grafted 100-46 and ws8-10 on Jiro last year. They both took but failed to leaf out this year.

Chuchupaka appears to have been successful on Jiro. I’ve now added Kasandra and JT02 to the same tree and they appear to be leafing out in this warm weather.

I’m eagerly looking forward to your inter stem results.


I think using a hybrid interstellar with persimmons is a great idea. I also think hybrid seedlings make a good rootstock. General, the hybrids will produce a smaller, more compact tree than traditional American rootstock. And I think for most backyard orcharders, that’s a desirable characteristic.
As an aside, I’ve been making my own hybrid crosses for seven years or so. Many from the first planting flowered for the first time last year. But there’s one from five years ago that seems truly dwarfing and is only two feet tall — the others from that planting are all over six feet. It’s a cross between Chinebuli and an f2 Rosseyanka male and has never suffered winter die back. It’d be kind of cool if I can propagate it from root suckers and have a row of super dwarf persimmon rootstock.


Have you tried taking root cuttings? They tend to work pretty well. You could come up with your own line of persimmon rootstocks! Once you start getting suckers, my review of the literature indicates that you should be able to root them using a stooling bed type of situation. It’s generally possible to root persimmons, but they need etiolation and it works best with suckers. Also, genetics plays a huge role in rooting success. If you do figure something out, I might be interested in a dwarfing hardy persimmon rootstock.


I haven’t yet. But some of my older trees throw out suckers that would be easy to dig up and use for propagation. I’ve also noticed that most persimmons will sucker like crazy when I cut them down (a lot of my seedlings end up being males or just not very cold hardy) and that would be an option too. Risky though.

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In researching this topic earlier this spring I saw these three paragraphs From Hartmann and Kesterson Propagation Guide, pg 738

“ Rootstocks for Japanese Persimmon.

Diospyros lotus. This rootstock, widely used in California, is very vigorous and drought-resistant. It produces a fibrous type of root system that transplants easily. This rootstock is susceptible to crown gall (Agrobacterium) and Verticillium, will not tolerate poorly drained soils, and is highly resistant to oak root fungus (Armillaria). ‘Hachiya’ does not produce well on D. lotus stock because of excessive shedding of fruit in all stages (180). ‘Fuyu’ scions usually do not form a good union with D. lotus, although ‘Fuyu’ topworked on a compatible D. kaki interstock on D. lotus roots makes a satisfactory tree.

D. kaki. This rootstock is the most favored in Japan and is probably best for general use. It develops a good union with all cultivars, is resistant to crown gall (Agrobacterium) and oak root fungus (Armillaria), but is susceptible to Verticillium. Seedlings have a long tap- root with few lateral roots, making transplanting some- what difficult.

D. virginiana. Seedlings of this species are uti- lized in the southern United States due to their wide soil adaptation but have not proven satisfactory in some localities. ‘Hachiya’ growing on this rootstock in California is dwarfed, has sparse bloom, and yields poorly (180), but most other Oriental cultivars make a good union with this rootstock. However, diseases of an unknown nature carried in D. kaki scions will cause death of the D. virginiana roots. Otherwise, this root- stock seems to be tolerant of both drought and excess soil moisture. Its fibrous type of root system makes transplanting easy but increases suckering.”

So I had several kaki seedlings that I tried to graft Fuyugaka onto to test the second paragraph. Still waiting to see if they grow.

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So far the successes and likely failures

(1) Grafting hybrids on D. Kaki

Nikita’s Gift, Gora Roman Kosh (old grafts), Chuchupaka and Kandy Corn (new grafts)

Likely failure - Kasandra

(2) Double grafts with hybrid interstem

100-46 → Nikita’s Gift
Deer Magnet → Nikita’s Gift
H63A → Nikita’s Gift

Likely failure - Barbra’s Blush → Chuchupaka

(3) D. V on D. Kaki

Deer Candy, Barbra’s Blush


The hybrid interstem is the way to go imo. I plan to do that. Hybrids, for me, take better on american rootstock, than kaki. I imagine it would be the same for grafting to kaki, that a hybrid interstem would increase success and lower the likelihood of rejection.
Chuchupaka and Gora are still hard to come by here in the us, i hope you can grow them out.

Thanks. I agree, the direct grafted ones will likely die in a year or so based on others’ experiences. I am mostly interested in double grafting Vs leaving a year in-between. If the former is successful, I can recommend it to others here. Almost every home has a big Jiro tree here and too many gets unpicked/wasted.

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Nice! Yeah I have american/kaki survive long term but a bigger percent sure fail. Those that wake up next spring should be good to go. Hopefully. But hybrids are for sure better success rate, so interstem is a great idea!. :slight_smile:

First sign of rootstock incompatibility. This is Deer Candy on Jiro (Fuyu). The graft took off and grew well but suddenly the leaves started drooping now. This is expected.

How are your inter stem grafts doing?

One has survived so far. There were other variables as I grafted in late July and I didn’t protect the grafts. Covering them with foil invites lot of ear wigs, so I left them alone. Having said that, all the direct grafts (DV and hybrids) survived and leafed out. Of course some of the DVs are slowly declining now.

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How can you tell the difference between males and females?
The reason I ask is because I grafted quite a few this spring in to D. Virginiana and some grafts didn’t took, seems like the rootstock rejected the graf and I been wondering if those could have been male rootstocks!

I wait for them to flower. If they flower in clusters, they’re male. If they make single flowers, they’re female.


Thanks Steven!

It’s not ideal to have to wait that long to find out. But the plus side is that mature persimmons seem easier to graft, and they’ll also fruit sooner too.

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I’ll be interested to hear how this goes as your trees wake up this Spring. These compatibility issues are pretty confusing.
I’m planning to start some kaki, lotus & virginiana seeds this year. Maybe I’ll feel like doing some tests and keeping notes in a couple years. It’s hard to say.
I had grown a couple kaki seedlings for several years with shoddy care. Last year I repotted them and grafted true Fuyu & Suruga with great success.
I purchased some lotus rootstock and grafted Rosseyanka, Saijo, CA Maru with good success. Pure Americans did not do so well, 100-46, H-118, D-128, H-128. H-128 took but looked like it might be declining at the end of the season. The others could have failed due to quality of scion wood or the grafts I attempted (chip buds below apical growth). I’m told Americans do just fine on lotus. I’m trying again this year.
I’m a little off topic here, introducing some other compatibility issues, but hopefully that’s cool.

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If you guys would please, try to get pictures of the unions showing necrosis aka Translocated Incompatibility. It’s more than interesting to see which cultivars or species show localized incompatibility, thereof, those combinations.

Unfortunately there’s no book written on this. I’d really appreciate photos where we all will be able to see a distinguishable “line” (necrosis) where the union is pulling itself apart (basically-speaking).

Of course the other type of incompatibility that exists is Localized Incompatibility where the vigor(s) are mis-matched and, eventually there is enough difference in size of scion or rootstock where at the union all it takes is a big gust of wind to snap it. (no necrosis ever)

I’d like to see the necrosis… if you guys would please. I want all the data you can submit about:

  1. rootstock
  2. cultivar
  3. and the “intermediary” being used.

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