A few searches didn’t turn up any thread specifically about germinating grape seeds or growing grapes from seed. If there is such a thread, my apologies.
Does anyone have an established process for starting grape seeds? Do they require any kind of dormancy (drying, cold stratification) or scarification of any kind? Heat?
As for why I’m asking, someone in my neighborhood has an interesting grape with an interesting back story (planted in our neighborhood by someone ~100 years ago, believed to be from France). It makes some pretty tasty grapes that are reminiscent of Concord grapes in my mind, though he called them “some kind of Merlot type,” but I’ve no idea what those look or taste like as table grapes. I’ll be doing an air layer later but thought I might try sprouting the seeds, too, since I tend to like the mystery involved in growing seedlings.
I’ve grown muscadines from seed. Separate see from pulp, place seed about 1/2 inch deep in a container of grow mix, water regularly until they germinate. I grow them in a window that gets plenty of sun then set out in the spring. Usually takes about 2 months to germinate.
I grow grape from seed. The seeds are from the giant globe grape. They have low germinate rate. Just throw them in the ground with good soil. I only got one to sprout. Then I transplanted it to the final spot. 1st year was just a thin stick. 2nd year it was able climb to 6 ft. 3rd year it thrive and able to grip 1/2 to 3/4 PVC pipe with it’s tendril. Amazing grip strength that it almost choke itself before I cut it loose. Able to produce 1 cluster of grape. Next year, wishing for more tastier and bigger grapes.
IME, results are highly variable. I planted seed of Big Red muscadine and got both black and bronze offspring. Most were significantly worse quality than Big Red. Net positive, several offspring were self-fertile as I had several self-fertile varieties such as Ison for pollination.
Grew a tame grape from seed once by accident. It came up about 100 feet from the parent grapes. I didn’t need another grape so i mowed it off when i mowed off everything else. The way i knew it was a tame grape was it was white / tan colored under the leaves like a concord. There seed is not as viable as others because i only saw the one sprout. Regularly i have apples, pears, plums etc. All growing from seed. My place has lots of seedlings, but @39thparallel might have thousands of seedling apples under a single tree at times from windfalls. My pears etc. Are similar but i only see a few seedlings under my pear trees from windfalls. He has hundreds and hundreds of producing apple trees. As large as my orchard is i find it difficult to keep that many trees in fruit production here. That is a goal i work at with pears that has taken a great deal of experimentation. Once fruit production starts on anything you grow seedlings will naturally occur. Ever so often you see a seedling that cant be ignored because it is vigirous and standing out among the rest.
Grape seeds need cold stratification for good germination. For bunch grapes, soak seeds in water overnight, then place in some lightly dampened potting soil and keep refrigerated for 3 months. After stratification, I usually just move the seeds in a ziplock bag to a warm area under a grow light, and check the seeds frequently. I transplant to seed starter trays as soon as I see any sign of germination.
Be aware that self-fertile grapes produce seeds that are mostly selfed, so you will likely see a lot of inbreeding depression. Also, any grape that has a lot of vinifera in it’s parentage, and most labrusca hybrids will typically root easily from dormant cuttings, so no need to air layer.
Was just about to say the same thing. Definitely start more seeds than you need.
Even if self-pollinated, there will be a lot of variation in the seedlings. Green grapes will only make progeny with green berries, however. Red and black grapes can have seedlings of any color.
Great to know! I know nothing of grape species or cultivars, so here are some photos of the leaves and fruit (he said they were at peak ripeness about a month ago and any he didn’t pick then are starting to rot now):
Based on those photos, does anyone have a guess about the cultivar?
This vine was transplanted from the original location across the street when the new owners there wanted to remove it about a decade ago, apparently there’s a vine the size of a small tree trunk on the far side of the fence.
Hi Winn,
I have not had any luck with grape seeds, although my Concord seeds that fall to the ground from squirrels eating, occasionally germinate but I just pull them up since I don’t need them. If you look underneath the vines there may be volunteers growing you can collect.
Rooting dormant grape scions will get you far better results, produce an exact variety clone and get you a stronger vine much sooner than growing from seeds. That would be my preferred method. I do my grape rooting in early March with about 95% success. Suggest this as your better process.
Dennis
As I said in the first post, I’m also planning to vegetatively propagate it, but in general I like the challenge and mystery of growing seedlings, so I wanted to do both.
And thanks for the tip on timing in our climate! I’ll aim for March to take cuttings.
Does the fruit have slip skin? If so, it is likely a labrusca.
They are much less likely to be grown here in the west coast but the leaves look like labrusca to me.
Looks like it’s slipskin, so that would imply a labrusca x vinifera hybrid. Does the pulp easily slip out of the skins? Definitely not Merlot. The deeply cut sinuses and large berries suggest Campbell’s Early aka Island Belle, which would taste like a more refined Concord.
Yes, it’s slip skin and tastes like Concord but better, so that’s a good guess! Would that have been available in the 1920s? That’s when the original vine was planted according to the family that had owned the house from when it was built until they sold it about 10 years ago.
" "Island Belle “is a light-bodied hybrid grape (vitis labrusca), also known as Campbell’s Early. The Grape made its debut around 1890 on Stretch Island located in Grapeview, Washington along the shore line of South Puget Sound.” The “Island Belle” Story (activerain.com)
This makes me seriously doubt the French origin, but is totally consistent otherwise.
Yeah, I mean I think that was just because the original owner was a French immigrant, but it’s equally likely they just bought a locally available grape cultivar instead, and as you say the rest seems to check out. The person with the vine now said he’s planning to send it in for genetic testing, so that may shed further light on it, depending on how reliable those tests are.
The French have traditionally looked down on labrusca grapes preferring the vinifera type. They have referred to the Concorde flavor as “foxy” and used other unflattering terms.
They only use labrusca as rootstock.
My favorite method for sprouting grape seed is helter skelter in the vegetable garden. I get dozens and dozens annually from the ‘Niagara’ growing on the edge of one of my long raised beds. They germinate pretty easily IME, but Id imagine with that clinging pulp and thick seed coat that they might do a lot better if soaked, fermented, and then well cleaned.
It sure looks like a labrusca. A neighbor once told me about the special grape they had growing at their house. She was fairly certain it was Portugese. When I went to check it out, it was a ‘Concord’.
I always thought that was a curious descriptor, and then an acquaintance who owns a vineyard in CA connected the dots for me. “Fox” is an anglicized version of “Faux”, French for fake.
I get dozens and dozens annually from the ‘Niagara’ growing on the edge of one of my long raised beds. They germinate pretty easily IME, but Id imagine with that clinging pulp and thick seed coat that they might do a lot better if soaked, fermented, and then well cleaned.