Unless they have another persimmon nearby that produces male flowers, the tree in question is not Hachiya, which only produces female flowers and therefore seedless fruit in isolation. Hana Gosho is non astringent, seedy/produces male flowers, and kinda shaped like a Hachiya. Maybe that’s the variety? I believe it’s fairly widely sold in California as ‘Giant Fuyu’ despite looking completely different.
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Your astringent fruit are most likely Hachiya, as labeled.
Your neighbor’s non-astringent fruit is almost certainly not Hachiya, unless you have discovered a new mutant. If so, clone it. Or distribute scions. People would kill for a non-astringent Hachiya.
Is there any chance that your neighbor’s tree is a PVNA variety? You’d know because the seeds would turn the flesh brown. Seeded PVNA’s become non-astringent while still firm. Unseeded PVNAs stay astringent until very ripe. So it might be diagnostic if you could find a fruit without seeds and check it for astringency.
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Welcome to the forum!
As said above, it’s likely your neighbors tree is not what you would buy in a grocery store as ‘Hachiya’. Do you have photos of the fruit from their tree?
Regardless of what it is or isn’t, until you find out what it IS, I’d recommend getting your own tree started if you really like it and want to preserve whatever variety it is, regardless of what that may be.
It’s possible the tree is a seedling too! It may just have the shape of a Hachiya fruit instead of a fuyu type fruit.
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Flesh does not turn brown on the fruit from the old tree. Again it is probably over 30 years old. Would PVNA still be a possibility?
The fruit from the two trees is the same shape and texture. The variations are just a little in color, seed vs no seed and the dreaded astringency. Very different from Fuyu.
Changing tactics a little. Comments have me thinking about grafting. I can quickly get a cutting from the Fuyu tree I have gotten fruit from. Cuttings from the old Hachiya tree would not happen until this fall. When is a good time to graft and which graft should I use?
I know nothing about grafting but a neighbor is a master gardener so I would solicit his help for the surgery. I live in a retirement community and my yard is small. I only have room for the persimmon and a brown Turkey fig. I call it “the little tree that could”. I supply many neighbors in self defense. Otherwise I would be overwhelmed with figs.
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Wish I could modify a post. I forgot to mention an important difference. Fruit from the old tree is picture perfect. Fruit from my tree has large dark areas.
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I like to bark graft dormant persimmon cuttings (taken during the winter and kept in the fridge until spring) on my rootstock trees when the first leaves are visible in the spring. For me in zone 7B North Carolina, that’s usually the end of April since persimmons tend to leaf out later than many other trees. The timing is more important than the type of graft you use in my opinion, but I like bark grafts because it’s easy to get good cambium contact. It’s important to remove all growth on the rootstock below the graft every few days because this growth can compete with your scion. It’s also essential to brace/splint the graft with a bamboo stake or something comparable that prevents it from snapping off in the wind or if a bird lands on the scion before it is strong enough to take the weight. That can take a year or two. I also like to wrap the scion in parafilm or buddy tape to keep it from drying out too fast. The buds will push through this wrapping, but it’s important to conserve moisture until the graft takes.
If you’re willing to share scionwood next winter from your friend’s non-astringent so-called Hachiya, I would love to graft it and see how it does for me here in NC. I grow many persimmon cultivars and would be happy to share if you’d like to try other types. I don’t have anything that matches your friend’s tree’s description, however. Most of my trees are astringent or Fuyu/Jiro types.
One more thing you could try with your astringent Hachiya fruit this year - if you pick them when they are yellow/orange but still firm and then vacuum-seal them for a few days, they will probably come out without that astringency.
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I wonder if this is sunburn - I see it on some of my persimmon fruit but usually not that big a patch.
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Spots not limited to the sunny side of the fruit but I think it is mor prominent there. I can’t remember. My tree is young and the foliage is sparce compared to the old tree.
Do you hav the photo of the fruits so We can ID it.
Tony
No. In PVNA fruit, the loss of astringency and the change of color go hand-in-hand.
Re grafting, I’m a relative novice but the rule I follow is dormant scions / growing rootstock. So here I do outdoors grafting in mid to late May using scions taken in Feb/March. But I have also brought potted rootstock trees indoors in Feb/March and grafted them after they leafed out. That works very well. This year I just started these grafts. I have 7 potted rootstock trees, and I set three grafts yesterday.
Re type of graft, for outdoor grafts on and established tree, I agree that bark grafts are easy and fairly dependable because it’s hard not to have decent contact between cambium layers. On a smaller branch, a cleft graft is fairly easy. Whip and tongue is strong and usually successful but the knife work is more challenging.
Welcome to the forum.
When I first read your post, I thought it sounded like the older tree is a PVNA type, particularly since it is probably less likely to have seeds unless it has male flowers as well which many PVNA persimmons do. Is the flesh brownish at all when you eat it, particularly around the seeds? If not, and it is bright orange/yellow inside, then it certainly sounds like that other tree is a non-astringent type. But if the flesh is brownish, then it certainly sounds like a PVNA type.
Where are you located? If you are in California, where many persimmons are grown and various PVNA types have been grown, you might see one that looks like the older tree by looking at the document below. With the redish color you mention, I’d point you to Zenji Maru as one to look at, but California Maru (PI83790) and Chocolate are other possibilities.
https://calag.ucanr.edu/archive/?type=pdf&article=ca.v042n04p7
I hope we can help you solve this mystery, but if not, many of us would probably love to get some dormant cuttings next year to grow this wonderful mystery tree ourselves.
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The document linked by @zendog lists Hachiya as PVA. That’s a lesser version of PVNA but it opens the door to the possibility that your seeded Hachiya loses its astringency due to the seeds.
My understanding is that the flesh in a PVA discolors only in the immediate vicinity of the seeds. And the loss of astringency proceeds outward from the vicinity of the seeds. A PVA become non-astringent much later than a PVNA.
<< Hachiya. This cultivar was the basis of the persimmon industry in California until recently, when nonastringent types like Fuyu and Jiro became more popular. Hachiya fruits frequently produce brown flecking around the seeds in some seasons and areas but not in others; as a result, it has been reclassified as pollination-variant. Hachiya is eaten fresh, frozen, or as a dried product, and is used in puddings and cookies. >>
I know this would be a long term project (7 years?). If if I could start a tree from seeds from the tree with the fruit I like and plant it in my yard near the tree with the fruit I do not like what would the resulting fruit be on each tree?
Years ago I started trees in pots from the tree I like. Less than one year old saplings (if they even qualify) are not hardy. It only took one day of neglect to kill them in Sacramento summer heat. Trying the project again has slim hope of success.
I have no ability to graft. That whole concept is beyond me.
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It’s a crap shoot.
“Seeds from the tree with the fruit I like” tells you which tree was the female. So then the question is: Which tree was the male? If “the tree with the fruit I do not like” produces males flowers, then it might well be the pollen source. Or it could be some other male-flowering tree nearby. Presumably, the cross would have some mix of traits from the two parents, but which mix you can never know until you try.
You may remember the story about Marilyn Monroe and Albert Einstein. Marilyn suggested that they should hook up because the child might be blessed with her looks and his brains. Of course, Einstein countered that it could have his looks and her brains.
If you don’t mind, please describe the fruit you don’t like. We might be able to tell you more.
I am the OP so descriptions of the two trees are posted above. Note the trees are probably 15 miles apart so they are not currently influencing each other.
Another option is to plant a Fuyu persimmon near the offending Hachiya. I have a very small yard and only room for one more tree and that will be a squeeze. Would I end up with Fuchiya fruit? 
Sorry, I am very frustrated the tree I waited 5 years to fruit is so disappointing.
OK, Sorry for the confusion. Assuming both trees are Hachiya (which seems most probable) and that Hachiya is PVA, then the difference between them is all about the seeds. The tree with the excellent non-astringent fruit has seeds; the tree with the sweet but astringent fruit does not.
My recommendation would be to find a tree to pollinate your Hachiya. You might plant a male-flowering tree nearby, such as Coffee Cake. You might ask someone to graft a scion from such a tree to your Hachiya.
I grew Hachiya for over ten years and they were always seeded since I have several males. They were also always astringent until they were bletted and soft.
I don’t have a clue what’s going on with the non-astringent “Hachiya” tree. Please post some pictures of the fruits next year. My guess is that it is a PVNA not Hachiya but it is hard to say.
Scott – which males pollinated your Hachiya?
Elsewhere it has been established that Pollination Variance has two independent components: (1) the seeds produce ethanol, and (2) the flesh retains ethanol. It seems likely that #2 is driven solely by the genes of the mother. But I have always wondered whether #1 is driven at least in part by the genes of the father [pollen donor]. Let’s assume that Hachiya has the genes to accumulate ethanol. Maybe the solution to the mystery is that whether the fruit is PCA, PVA, or PVNA depends on whether the seeds have acquired genes to produce ethanol – from the pollen. So maybe the pollinator matters.
This an off-the-wall idea, I know.
Meanwhile the non-astringent “Hachiya” tree has never been pollinated so as far as I can see we have no way to tell whether it might be PVNA. The best thing would be to pollinated it this year to see what happens.
Yes that sounds pretty off the wall to me 
Not impossible though. I had several males at that point, Chocolate and a couple different Maru.
I’m not sure what you are referring to about the OPs tree not being pollinated, he said it had seeds.
[quote=“scottfsmith, post:24, topic:51758”]
I’m not sure what you are referring to about the OPs tree not being pollinated, he said it had seeds
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The post says, << The tree I planted has fruit that is lighter in color, has no seeds . . . >>