I have an envyable problem. I have a bunch of grafted persimmons…and cannot plant them all.
Hubby does want to put a row in this year, so I need to make some choices. I don’t even know how these grow. Which varieties get large and need more room etc.
Here are the options for about a 200 foot row.
Smith’s Best /Giboshi
Early Jewel H-118
Deer Magnet 100-29
O.P. Nikita’s Gift /Dr Kazas
Please let me know if you feel something is a must try in our zone 7-8 climate, and how much space it should be allowed.
I would like to put the shorter trees more southward, and give them all sufficient room to not need extreme pruning.
Many thanks for any and all help!
Saijo is on my must grow list. I do not have enough information to state an opinion on the rest.
I have a similar list , and am very interested in hearing the responses from others.
I have many American persimmon trees , they do become large trees, seem to do ok growing “up” and don’t have a "wide " spread.
I pick most of these as drops, so I am ok with letting them grow “up”
Can take several years to fill their space.
Jerry Lehman recomends 20ft spacing for American persimmon.
This looks about right for the long run,but it will take many years to fill this space. Thinking there is room in between for a filler tree of some sort ( peach, Asian persimmon , etc.)that can be removed latter .
I don’t have much experience with Asian persimmon ,
The ones I have seen this far north are small ,short lived trees.
Edible landscaping recommends a 10-12ft space for asian’s
Here I am thinking of alternating Asian / Americans on a 10ft spacing .
And wait for that bad cold year to thin them out.
You are farther south and they may get bigger,/ live longer…
Comments from others …please ?
Whether to plant Chocolate or any other varieties that produce male flowers is one big choice. I hear Chocolate is outstanding, but you have a lot of pollination constant varieties on your list that would typically be grown without pollination for the sake of seedless fruit, so assuming you’ll be planting everything you plant within pollination distance of each other, you’ll have to choose between growing pollination variant types and having seedless fruit from your pollination constant types.
From what Jerry Lehman, the breeder of Deer Magnet, has said, Deer Magnet is a variety I’d drop if I had to drop some (unless you’re actually wanting to use it to attract deer.) Lehman said, “The problem with most very late ripening virginiana varieties is they retain their fruit rather than dropping it, much to the joy of birds. Deer Magnet typically holds its fruit then drops it around December 1. Rosseyanka (Russian Beauty) for example here in central Indiana holds its fruit until December 1, slowly ripens it but drops only a few. You should see the starlings in that tree in December. The downfall of Deer Magnet for human use is the small size and large number of seeds, but the deer don’t care.”
Great Wall, according to someone with a lot of experience with a lot of different persimmon varieties that I trust about as much as anyone, is, for whatever it’s worth, his most ornamental variety, particularly including fall leaf color, but I don’t know if fall colors even happen in Arizona.
Morris Burton is tasty but tiny. I’d probably drop it first.
Saijo and Nikita’s gift have performed well in my area. They are first rate.
H63A and 100-46 are top-notch American persimmons. They were among the best I tasted at England’s Orchard, with H63A being particularly sweet. I’m guessing the Dr. Kazas is probably great too! I tasted NB-02 as well, which is also a Nikita’s Gift cross, and it was very tasty.
I have been looking at variety descriptions and wase is part of the name of multiple cultivars, but not the complete name of any I’ve seen.
I grafted some just labeled “Wase” and I’m wondering if it might be the same as Matsumoto Wase? (Also grafted)
Also looking at two possibly three rows of trees, which will let me plant 30 -45 trees.
We are thinking of putting the Americans on a 20 foot spacing further north, and the Kaki on a 12 foot spacing, but on the same rows that are 20 feet apart.
I have multiples of some of these recommended varieties, and would probably plant more then one.
Orchard planning is better then holidays!
If you got a scion from my Wase Fuyu, I probably just wrote Wase on the scion, but Wase Fuyu is how the variety was given to me, so if you got it from Wase was just my shorthand for Wase Fuyu. Matsumoto Wase Fuyu might be the same thing, though. I’m similarly confused by whether there are actual differences between Hana Fuyu, Giant Fuyu, and Giant Hana Fuyu.
My Smith’s Best had a fabulous taste when pollinated. And a good but unremarkable taste unpollinated. So that’s a big decision whether you want to deal with seeds. I would happily deal with seeds in Giboshi as the fruit set and flavor both improve with pollination. It is is naturally on the small side.
I’m leaning toward planting everything I want and dealing with seeds. I appreciate you sharing that info!
So does 10-12ft spacing sound about right for Asian persimmon .?
Hope to hear from some people that have grown them long enough to fill that space and more.?
How big do they get ? And where?
I just have never seen big old Asian persimmons
Jolene, you and others have probably grown tired of hearing me blather on about Saijo, but on the off chance that you’ve missed it let me say again: My favorite fruit of EVERYTHING I grow (which includes 5 persimmon varieties) is Saijo. PLEASE make sure you plant at least one of them. I’ll restrain myself from launching another diatribe on what makes Saijo so great (your welcome, everyone) but I can’t let your question go by without at least giving a strong recommendation to it. Plant one, thank me later!
I have three, and will plant them ALL. Thank you!
I greatly prefer non-astringent varieties so my first choice would be Tam Kam for zone 7 but if you are more zone 8 then one of the Jiro varieties might be a better choice.
Dimitri brings up a good point even though I hold a different opinion from him.
@joleneakamama, what kind do you and your family prefer? That will dictate how many of each kind you will plant.
I grow non-astringent (Jiro) as well as several astringents and greatly prefer the flavor, consistency, texture, sweetness of the astringents. If the Jiro wasn’t so productive, I would even get rid of it for another Rojo Brillante or H-118.
We like both, and can use a lot of fruit. Non astringent can be processed and dried easily.
We used to have an American persimmon tree of some kind, and a male tree too. The fruits were VERY astringent until ripe, and they hung late on the tree. My kids LOVED them, and I hardly even tried them.
We recently got a bunch of fuyu type Persimmons free off a tree not far from here. They were tasty, but the flavor of the ripe Hachiya I bought last year was really good.
We have a very large extended family, and like to have a lot we can share.
You know dehydrating removes the astringency from astringent kaki persimmons, right? So you can peel/slice astringent persimmons for dehydrating at any stage you would do the same with a non-astringent variety. And I believe astringent varieties are traditionally preferred for dehydrating (hoshigaki, etc.) So for processing and drying I would be favor the astringents over the non-astringents, not the other way around.
Just get rid of 75% of the tree’s mention and plant Roja Brillianti, and get rid of your pain.Maybe a hundred tree’s, just an option.